What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

I think that every year I know more and more women who are released from recruitment. They tell me what their Gamma Chis have said to them and I would like to address this. If you're talking with a girl who's been dropped,

1. DO NOT, unless she asks, say, "You can always be in student government," (or Residence Hall Association or so forth). She does not want to hear that. She wants to be in a national sorority with letters, a big sister, football game seating blocks, you know what I mean. Don't offer her something unsatisfactory.

2. DO NOT say, "Oh well, Greek life isn't everything." You're Greek and that sounds horribly patronizing coming from you. Also, at some campuses that's a lie because Greek life is a huge part of campus life.

3. DO NOT be dishonest about her chances of getting a COB bid or succeeding in rush next year. If you go to a school where COBing isn't done and re-rushing sophomores are automatically cut, tell her the truth. She may want to transfer and y'know, that's okay. That's very common in the South when women are released. Don't make fun of her for it.

I don't intend for this to turn into a South-bashing thread. I'm posting this because if I can help at least one brokenhearted woman by shutting up some patronizing recruitment counselor, then I'll be satisfied.

good post carnation, and especially timely, with recruitment going full force. thanks!

and of course, don't say, "you can always AI!"

Thank God for this post. :)

THANK YOU!!!!!

SAI, APO etc, ARE THEIR OWN GROUPS. They are not the same, and I'd be pissed if somebody told me they wanted to join SAI because they didn't get into a NPC group. It's not about the fancy letters, people.

Good posts. What are some things TO SAY?

I'm sorry. What do you want to do now?

Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

It seems like occasional rejection or disappointment is a fact of life, though, and not being invited back is just one example of that. This doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt, just that everyone experiences it at some point in her life. A PNM who is dropped by all the houses might feel very alone. I might consider sharing a story about a time when I felt hurt and rejected, but ultimately survived. Maybe it would help to point out that the recruitment process can be sort of arbitrary. It doesn't mean that she's a worthless person, just that she might not have happened to meet women she clicked with, and the house may have been forced to release a certain number.
Although Greek life is very important to some people, the PNM probably has other interests and goals too. Maybe it would be possible to talk with her about what she genuinely enjoys, and help her find student orgs that match her interests. If rushing again is a realistic option for her, being involved would probably help her chances.

Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

When you're talking about the difference between a state school in Texas and a state school in Alabama, and the girl in question is an Education major, Business major, Communications major, etc... transferring isn't really that big of a deal. I know it sounds silly- but people transfer all the time because they aren't HAPPY. And to some young women, especially at a huge Greek school where you ain't NOBODY unless you're in a sorority, happiness is defined by that elusive bid to their sorority of choice. Add to that any pressure they may be facing at home from their mother, grandmother, aunts, and cousins who are all XYZs and want desperately for little Suzy to be their official sister... it happens.

Re: Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

Seriously. We once had a freshman transfer in time to go ADPi, get initiated, then transfer to school in the South - where she was accepted as transfer sister. We later found out that she had gone to XYZ School, suicided ADPi, and didn't get a bid. Once she found out that she would have been the very next person on their bid list, she transferred to Pitt, etc. Frankly, I admired her ingenuity! She couldn't be an "official" sister at the Southern school until the next term (when someone was studying abroad), but it worked out well for her.

Re: Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

Co-sign!!! I know it is hard for alot of people to understand, but it DOES happen. And I wouldn't laugh at someone for doing that. If it makes the difference between a young lady being happy with her college experience or unhappy, then what is wrong with it? :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

I think it's one thing to transfer because you're unhappy (not getting a bid to the sorority of your choice being a small but integral part of that) and another thing to transfer entirely because you didn't get the house you wanted in rush. If a girl drops out of rush/is cut from all the houses and then goes on to try her best to make friends in the dorm, in other organizations, etc. -- and when it comes to January or February she's STILL unhappy and wants to transfer, I don't think there's a problem with that at all. If she drops out of rush/is cut and immediately decides -- in August or September, possibly before school has even STARTED, that her life is OMG TOTALLY OVER!!!!1! and she has to transfer to XYZ State so she can rush again, I think that's ridiculous. I would have zero qualms about making fun of such a person. Of course, that's one of the reasons I was never a Rho Chi . . .

I think the rest of the advice in this thread is spot-on, though.

"I'm sorry."

Then, be willing to LISTEN as long as she needs to talk or vent or cry or whatever. Check up on her the next day or so as appropriate, just in case she needs a friendly face. Say hi to her when you see her on campus.

Basically, treat her exactly as you'd want to be treated if YOU were the confused/lonely/scared/heartbroken/embarrassed/angry/etc (add or delete adjectives as appropriate) PNM yourself.

People do alot of things that may not make sense to someone who lives in a different environment. That's no reason to make fun of them. I would just say whatever and move on. People do what they feel is best for themselves.

And there are schools in the south (luckily not the one I went to) where greek life is CRAZY important. And some of these girls in the south were raised knowing about sorority life. They have grown up hearing the big names like Tri-Delt and Chi-O.

Not everyone in the south is like that (I wasn't). But it does happen. Maybe not the smartest thing, but to each her own.

Carnation, good thoughts, but you sound mad.

I've heard of people pledging at smaller southern schools and then transferring to a larger university so they could be in such-in-such sorority. I'm almost certain of one girl in my chapter that did that.

I'm glad that rush wasn't a big deal to my family. Rush/pledge if you want to, but don't feel like you have to or join any one particular group (was their philosophy) . I couldn't imagine the pressure. I was totally clueless when I rushed over 10 yrs ago, but looking back, the chapters saw the real me and I think thats what was important.

Carnation: I really liked your post and I thought it was on the mark. One poster thought you were mad and while I agree there's an undercurrent of annoyance, I think it's very valid. Some of the remarks after an unpleasant rush experience ARE patronizing, even if not intended that way. And if an awareness of this stops even one person from hurting a PNM (even if unintentional) then I think it's a benefit.

And as a side note, my daughter thought about transferring after a bad rush experience. Her school is VERY greek and she knew that, on some level, she'd have to start all over socially. She felt that maybe she would be better off doing that at a large state school where if you weren't greek, at least there were 20,000 others like you instead of 500.

But she got some very wise words from her advisor who told her to ask herself these questions: was she running AWAY from something? or running TO something? If she was running away, she might be better served by staying and learning from it and fighting through it. And ultimately, that is what she chose. It is not always easy, however, to hold your head up high when you are hurt and feel rejected. I give my daughter the utmost respect for having the class and dignity to hold her head up in the face of an adverse situation - which in many cases, a rush rejection is - particularly at some schools (and I don't mean just the big southern ones).

What a great post KD! Kudos to your daughter too! :)

Does this have to do with that other thread? (That now I can't find...am I going nuts? I know I read a thread earlier that's missing...)

ETA: Oh, and I doubt many Pi Chis/Rho Gammas/Gamma Chis are going to make an "You can always AI!" comment. I personally had never heard of alumnae initiation until after I graduated, but that may not be the norm. But I agree, it's not an appropriate thing to say.

*DO NOT say "Wanna come look at all of my new stuff?" I've seen someone who just got into a sorority say that to someone who got rejected from that same sorority and though you're excited, it can hurt the girl who didn't get a bid.

*DO NOT say "Wow, it's such a rarity when people don't get a bid..." Though it may be true for your school, it makes the person feel like even more of a loser.

perhaps it would be best if schools had councelors on hand when girls who were cut from recruitment were being told the news. i just think that no matter how trained the rho whatevers are, they are just peers of the pnm. they might respond in a way that they *think* is being helpful, but is not. kind of like when you break up with a boyfriend you really cared for and everyone tells you that when one door closes, another opens. no one wants to hear that, you just want your old door back!! :) of course, i imagine that none of these women are doing it on purpose, but they are just not truly able to deliver such news and deal with the grief that some pnms will feel.

i do know that on my old campus, the health center was alerted that recruitment was happening, times that women were receiving invites and bids, so that if something was happening, they might be needed. there was no one however, sitting in the greek advisor's office (or where ever) waiting for upset pnms to come to talk.

This isn't really something you can do, but something I think the schools should think about.

Now I know a lot of schools have gone to having bid day on Sundays or weekdays to prevent overpartying...but that isn't always the best for PNMs who don't receive bids. Our bid days were always on Friday and you knew by 3 PM if you got a bid - if you hadn't, you could get out of Dodge so you didn't have to be around all the deliriously happy new pledges. You could go home to your mom & dad's, road trip to another college, etc etc. By the time you come back on Sunday the pain's lessened a little. In contrast, if bid day's Sunday you have to go to class the next day and pass 1) all those people who didn't give you a bid 2) all those people who got bids instead of you.

Agree that Panhellenic should have someone (several) available. The answer has always been the Rho Chi's will talk with the released PNM. Which is great, but they are always busy with all the other PNM's. The absolutely worst story I was involved in was at a school with deferred recruitment, pref day Saturday and Bid Day Sunday, with all campus returning, if I recall on a Monday for school back in session on Tuesday this particular year. No one, not one soul, let the PNM know that she had did not receive one inviation to pref day. All PNM's woke up, got dressed for pref, went to pick up their invitations, her envelope was empty. (And she had gone to the maximum amount of parties the day before!) Not one panhellenic person spoke with her, parties were starting immediately, so she ended up leaving the large area and walking back alone, all dressed up, to an empty dorm. She was a legacy to a GLO that dropped her after open house. Needless to say the mother hopped in the car to drive the 6 hours to campus, the aunt and cousin from 8 states away were trying --- unsuccessfully to call Panhellenic. I was trying to call panhellenic (I'm 4 hours away); then tried to reach the Dean of Women ---it's a Saturday and school is not back! I asked if I could call the health center, but the mother told me not to. Churches, anything! We were just trying to find someone to be with her! Finally, Panhellenic returned the calls and her Rho Chi was on her way over. Needless to say the Rho Chi and the mother arrived within 5 minutes of each other. I think this is about 6 p.m. This PNM sat in an empty dorm room on the cell phone with relatives trying to keep her spirits up for over 8 hours! She was going to transfer, but the Rho Chi, over the course of that evening in 2 separate visits and a visit on Sunday encouraged the PNM to stay at school. Mom stayed for 2 days too. She finished the semester and is still at the school, but not in a GLO.
So, moral of the story. 1. They should have caught the no invite envelope. 2. Panhellenic should always have someone manning the phones, even if it goes to voice mail first and someone immediately goes thru the most urgent messages first. I know each house has hard working and over worked alumnae, but there has to be one that can take those phone calls.
Letters explaining the entire situation were written by the mother to the Dean of Students, the President of the University and the Panhellenic/Greek Life with pleas that this never happen again to another PNM. No one should be left alone!
So I guess I am as frustrated with this, as carnation was in her initial post.

The above situation basically happened to me. Being the naiive person I am/was, I didn't realize that you could be dropped from recruitment entirely (PX's, as great as they were, didn't lay that out for us). I was dropped after novelty (2nd) round, where I had attended 3 parties out of 6 houses I had a pretty full schedule that quarter, so I missed the Tuesday afternoon call of "hey you don't need to come and pick up your invites because you were dropped" because I couldn't check my voice mail (no cell phone at the time). SO I showed up early to the meeting (thank god) and my poor PX's looked like they had seen a ghost, they obviously hadn't planned on me not getting the message. I left shortly after hearing the news, and of course like many PNM's, I wanted to know WHY. So I talked to the greek life advisor, who was very calm with me and set up a meeting. I met with her and discussed what my options were, and she let me sign my bid card right there, on Thursday rather than Sunday so that I didn't have to explain what happened to the rest of my group. She said to fill out a full bid card and then see what happened. Course I got the "did not match" call on Sunday...by then I was OK with it, but watching girls go to Final party was really rough that weekend. But come monday, my roommate (who was usually a bit ditzy about messages) told me that I desperately needed to check my voicemail, that some lady from Student Affairs had INSISTED on leaving a message for me. So I check it...it's the Greek Life advisor saying that I had been offered a bid to my number 1 choice....Tau Delta. After much jumping up and down and excitement, I called her back and calmly accepted(yea right). That night I got to go to the finally PX meeting, recieve my bid (which promptly got a place of honor in my scrapbook) and went to closing ceremony. My life hasnt been the same since.

I guess the summary of that is that things happen for a reason, and that being forthright about the possibilities of not being bidded is a good policy, and explain what other courses of action are left open after recruitment (COB, re-rushing, not rushing, etc.). As a PX this year, I shared my story with my girls to explain what COULD happen, and that no one is guarenteed a bid, even if they have a full invite schedule. Me and my PX buddy (who rocked) gave the girls my Cell phone, room phone and email to contact me if they wanted to talk outside of the group meetings. Some of the girls connected better with me, others with the other PX, but that's OK, they called whoever they felt comfortable with, the point was that I lived on campus and the other PX lived a few blocks away, so we went and met with girls together or individually whenever the need arrose. Even after recruitment, some girls sought us out to ask our advice, and that goes to show, the PX job is never done :)!

Re: Re: Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

Not long ago for a few years Bama's Administration delayed Formal Recruitment to the week+ before Labor Day. I remember one PNM that had gone through at another large competitive Greek campus whose Recruitment was still prior to school. She got cut by the GLO she wanted yet transferred here in time specifically to go through our process. What amazed me so much was that I had always assumed there would be a little more red tape to wade through in transferring schools. It had to have been only about a 2-3 week timeframe.

FYI - we had received a "heads-up" call from our Chapter's Pres on the 1st campus. Sorry I have no idea how it worked out because we weren't the GLO she wanted and I didn't follow up on it. But I always wondered how that discussion would have gone. Would it be viewed as a positive thing like "Wow, look how much she loves us! She went through all this trouble just to have a chance to be one of us!"? Or would it be viewed negatively like "She doesn't care at all about us personally. All she wants are the XYZ letters."? I'd also want to know why she was cut by the 1st XYZ too.

I'd say to get this young lady to COB events. Tell them, that Formal Recruitment is hard for sorority women cuz they don't have time to really get to know all the PNM's after answering their questions and all. Just make sure she knows that once she hangs out with all the ladies, she has such a better chance. Just tell her to be herself and have some fun and I'm sure she'd have nothing to worry about.

i would like to speak on behalf of my friend carnation: both of us have been involved extensively with recruitments at a multitude of campuses, and see that the one area that recruitment counselors are lacking good training in is the subject this thread is based on. not enough time is spent on how to deal with the situation where a pnm is released from recruitment, or just an unhappy pnm in general. we have spoken many times about just this, and carnation decided that with formal recruitment in full swing on so many campuses, now would be a good time to gather ideas, to perhaps share with panhellenics.

At my school what we started doing is that the Rho Chi's call the PNM's who didn't get bids and explain to them the situation and talk with them so that way the girls know not to come to bid distribution where all of their friends are happy and jumping up and down because they got into their first choice.

I didn't get a bid after formal recruitment, so my call went something like this:

PX: Hi, sigpsigirl. There was a problem with matching and we were unable to find a place for you.
Me: Oh.
PX: If you're still interested in Greek Life, though, COB starts immediately, or you could wait until fall informal as well. And there's nothing stopping you from hanging out with sorority girls still!
Me: Okay.

It was a bit of a shock... but I liked the way my PX worded it so that it didn't sound like nobody liked me. I still felt that way, but I had no way to back it up. :) And seriously, if your campus has COB, PX's should push it because I did go through and was able to meet far more girls in the informal atmosphere than I could at formal rush, and found my home with Sigma Psi.

I agree. We choose Rho Chi's without much thought as to how they would react to someone not yet part of the Greek System. I don't know of any schools which hold seminars for Rho Chis prior to Recruitment (although I'm sure that there are some), and maybe that's something that each campus AND the NPC needs to look at. Even if it's just holding the PNM if she's crying, or taking her to a nearby private room to let her talk - that would be better than Jocelyn's, "You just got cross-cut. Have a nice day," scenario.

Absolutely, there needs to be someone with SOME counseling skills on hand on Bid Day - if not all through Recruitment! And I don't mean the Greek Advisor, someone who can show unbiased empathy without putting the system down.

The one thing I've seen cause the most pain is when a legacy rushes, and every sorority "assumes" she's going to her legacy chapter. Well, what if she doesn't like them, or doesn't fit in there? Does that have to exclude her from all the other GLOs, too? We always considered legacies to other chapters challenges, and rushed them all the harder - but I know a lot of other chapter don't. It's one of the main reasons I have trepidation about mandatory cuts.

At Iowa State, Rho Gammas are selected early in the spring semester and spend one night a week for ~8 weeks "training" with the Rho Gamma coordinator (who has to have been a Rho Gamma herself) for recruitment. They also have Rho Gamma training before recruitment at Iowa, but I don't know how long it lasts.

They go through the basics in the first few weeks and then spend the last few weeks of training reinacting various situations that could happen as Rho Gammas. I believe, if they can, they like to have a guest speaker from Student Counseling or Student Life talk to them about appropriate things to say/how to handle when girls are dropped completely, etc...

Someone is always on hand at the "red" phone in the Recruitment Office--whether it be the Panhellenic President, Greek Advisor, Grad Student Advisor, or another member of Panhellenic Exec.

I agree! I was a recruitment counselor way back and although we had weekly meetings to learn all the damn songs and symbols, we spent more time learning about First Aid and Heat Stroke (Central Florida recruitment is in late August) than Recruitment rules and how to console a PNM!

I still feel responsible for one PNM from years back-- she arrived late on Round 1. Instead of sending her into the first house on her schedule, our recruitment counselors thought we had to keep her outside so as not to interrupt the party. Well, no show-no excuse--- she got cut from that chapter. She ended up getting her top choice sorority on Bid Day... but what if she had gotten to go into that first house? Maybe that would have been "the right one."

We were totally inequipped to handle that situation. Now, if a PNM came out of the house with a cocktail napkin and a fistful of cookies, we could write up the chapter's infraction before you could even force the shortbread out of her hands!

And to this day I love my Tri-Delta friend who came late to that first party and got cut, but I wonder sometimes if our group of counselors had known what to do... maybe she would have been my ADPi sister!

And to the rest of my group that year -- the group preffed heavily at two houses-- and got cut heavily after that pref. I had to improvise on Bid Day, calling them with snap bid offers to other sororities that had expressed interest and trying to console them through the phone. That was a very rough experience.

To this day, I can still remember all the recruitment songs... and I remember how helpless I felt trying to console 5 wonderful women without their top choice bids.

I wholeheartly advocate "how to counsel and console" in the recruitment couselors' training!

Good point -- I must say, having read lots of web site descriptions of the NPC recruitment process and schedules at schools large and small -- Southern, Northern, Eastern, Western, Canadian; from 4-year commuter colleges to the most academically elite universities -- almost never is there even a suggestion that someone could find herself completely cut. Typically you'll see descriptions that end with something like "Bid Day -- this is when you find out who your new sisters are and join them for a special fun evening . . . "

Every now and then a site will mention that going through recruitment doesn't guarantee getting a bid, but that's about all.

I realize that Panhellenics don't want to cause more anxiety than already exists, but to those who aren't already in the know, just a mention of "mutual selection" may not be enough to prepare for some of the possibilities we read about on GC.

And as to the "why" that Phoenix Azul talked about -- because membership selection is a private process, it can be impossible to tell a PNM "why." That's not especially satisfactory, but I don't know what can be done about it. What can be difficult, though, is when the school's Panhellenic has publicized a fairly common thingy called the Potential New Member's Bill of Rights, which seems to be pretty popular. It purports to uphold "rights" to complete and truthful answers to questions, and so on. I get the impression, though, from lots of GC posts over a couple of years, that there are many recruitment mysteries (or important points that are casually glossed over) for both PNMs and active members -- not to mention alumnae and parents.

Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM
 

My sophmore year roommate transfered from Clemson to USC because she wanted to be a ZTA at Clemson and got cut and went KD instead. She thought the chapter of KD was better/larger/whatever at USC so she transferred schools. This was 20 years ago.

I went through the counseling program at Wake, and while discussing counseling areas related to collegians, recruitment came up. My professor shared that during and after recruitment, many students did make use of the campus counseling center. Perhaps tapping into the counseling office, or area professional counselors (alums) before recruitment begins would be beneficial. Maybe someone would be willing to stay and talk to the girls. I would probably consider volunteering somewhere if asked to be on hand for that purpose.