Judge dismisses Wyoming KKG lawsuit
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-...ing-rcna102261

I saw. Luckily, the suit was dismissed without prejudice so they can refile it and actually, this gives them pointers on how to refile.

Nobody should feel unsafe in their own house.

THIS!!!

Once again we see that the courts are reluctant to interfere or intervene in the affairs of private organizations.

I’m with you, carnation and honeychile. Totally. REFILE is my mantra now.

As they should be, right? The government shouldn't have the right to tell me that I can or cannot belong to the Southern California Knitters' Club or whatever. We have the right to free association in our private organizations and that includes GLOs. We want to protect our ability to select our own members. So this knife is going to cut both ways.

I personally think the members' issue is with KKG HQ.

Exactly.

I've been saying this all along.

An unqualified, alleged creeper was forced upon the chapter by the national organization.

If a straight woman who the chapter deemed wasn't acceptable due to grades and behavior was forced upon the chapter by the national org, we'd be looking at the exact same concern.

This issue should have been handled internally from the start.

I got the impression that the reason it went to a suit was that the national and local KKG execs wouldn't listen to the members who were upset. Always a bad move!

However, not only did this guy have sucky grades but he did some really creepy stuff that made many members uncomfortable and unsafe.

Well.....yes.....that absolutely is a bad move.....but that doesn't make it a federal case.

KKG is a private organization. I can understand and sympathize with the members feeling like they are not being heard regarding what they feel is a very uncomfortable situation. However, as hard as it is to swallow, the members need to take their member selection dispute up with their private organization.

A lot of the NPC groups say that they're trying to be more transparent lately but only because so many millions of dollars of donations have disappeared. The groups deserve that. I don't know how they think they can make decisions for the whole membership like they have...I've heard some horror stories from friends in various NPCs, all of whom donate their money elsewhere now.

Wow. I got a temporary ban on the Sororities subreddit by simply saying women are losing their spaces, and agreeing with someone who made an innocent comment about not being happy. There was no name calling or derogatory terms used, etc. Now people can't even disagree when it comes to bio males entering a sorority.

One of the other strange parts is that you don't ever hear about women joining a fraternity. I think we all know how that would end.

Perhaps a few of our GC readers have good memories and can help me here...didn't a few chapters of Delta Upsilon and/or Psi Upsilon go coed sometime since the late 1960s? I'm thinking more at private schools such as UChicago.

And did those chapters then have their charters pulled by their national organizations? Or perhaps they chose on their own to go local?

Yes, there are a number of fraternity chapters that have gone coed, largely at elite private schools in the Northeast. Psi Upsilon allows this. So does Kappa Alpha Society and Theta Tau. Other chapters have gotten charters pulled for various reasons but have thrived as co-ed locals (ex. Tabard at Dartmouth).

When you’re pretty much told “if you don’t like it, you can quit” I would say you have run into a brick wall regarding taking it up with the organization. As many things that get labeled hazing because they “place one sister above another” KKG has done exactly that. They have shown that Artemis, who keep in mind did not meet grade requirements and was voted on in an unorthodox fashion, is more important than the members who filed the lawsuit. Perhaps when they refile they should throw in a hazing charge.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that KKG did the right thing here, especially with the unorthodox way they apparently went about their member selection. I do agree that "hitting a brick wall" within the organization is frustrating. 100%

My point is that I am not at all surprised the court said that there wasn't much they could do to help a private organization which voted this member in. I think the lawsuit was as more about bringing attention and saying to KKG HQ that "we're serious", than it was about having any actual legal standing.

KKG is having their Convention this next spring. Perhaps the members need to make themselves heard during the general session. The problem is that people are afraid to speak up because they don't want to lose their membership and, that my friends, is where KKG has got them where they want them.

navane I have attended conventions and witnessed the closed ranks from TPTB when members voiced their concerns or disagreements with policies. It’s an example of “the sorority within the sorority” that I’m certain other old-timers also know. You are right, holding the threat of membership termination over the heads of those who dissent is particularly ugly. So like many of my Panhellenic sisters I disagree with my checkbook.

I think you understood my comment about the courts not interfering in private organizations. You explained it better and I appreciate that.

Totally agree, I am there with you my Panhellenic sister!

Serious question, what would be the consequences (other than an *X-ton* of screaming) to one of the members of the NPC allowing *all* students to join. (Yes, even the young man who has never thought of himself as anything other than male his entire life). Assume this actually passes at a full National Convention. Would the NPC automatically remove them from membership? I don't think the Federal or State governments would care. The most effect from a Legal Standpoint *might* be to screw up some of the bequests (sort of like what happened to BSA when they went fully co-ed).

Seems like the NPC would love it if we opened all our doors to the whole world. No rush needed--if you're psycho, if you have a .85 GPA, if you have a long police record--all would be welcome!

Creeds and rituals of an NPC group are usually strong traditions, while constitutions and laws of an NPC group are variables that can be changed by vote.

Would properly voting to allow *all* to join one individual NPC group violate the spirit of any ritual or creed of same group? Only the members of that group can truly decide, since rituals and some creeds are private.

We live in an extremely litigious society. I'm waiting for Jane Smith to sue Panhellenic because she didn't get invited back to her top choice.

As long as this was found to be something that falls within the unanimous agreements, they couldn’t really kick them out. The only membership requirements that are in the MOI under the UA are that the person must be matriculated at the school where the chapter is and that they can’t be enrolled in HS and college simultaneously.

That being said, any sorority that would go coed and/or remove selective membership and stay a member would be stupid, because it does cost money to be a member.

I do not understand this comment. Could you elaborate?

Artemis Langford is interviewed by MSNBC.


https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09...nal-interview/

Ugly is as ugly does.

I can't help but think: 50 or so years ago when they first pledged, would these women have believed that decades later they would lose their membership for following their convictions and stating the obvious: that men don't belong in women's organizations? Back then, would they have been able to wrap their heads around the idea that in the future, up would be down and down would be up? That right would be called wrong and wrong would be celebrated? That in this country there would be all this militancy and forced speech to discourage people from saying that the emperor is not wearing any clothing?

I hope these women continue their work to advocate for their beliefs regardless of their membership status. This is not a good look for Kappa.

They've just kicked out two alumnae. How sad!
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/11...ender-lawsuit/

Another article

https://archive.ph/yaOLv

It’s important to point out that one of these two women was a past President of the national foundation. I don’t know all of KKG’s hierarchy but I would wager that is some serious cheese.

I also as an old GCer who vividly remembers the alumnae initiation debates on here and remembers that Kappa was one who pretty much never ever did it - am intrigued by the fact that they finally changed their bylaws in 2018 and are now “all in.”

In the words of Pokey from The Group, who’d a thunk it.

I am so glad to hear that multiple lawsuits are being planned by these alums and whose who were kicked out of Phi Mu. These nationals deserve it.

What happened with Phi Mu!?

They booted several longtime and loyal members because they "had the nerve" for expressing their views, which were against that of the current so-called leadership.

That's horrible! I have many PM friends and this makes me sad. How dare members have an opinion. /sarc I'm also sad for these Kappas... yes, IMO they are still members. The nationals are bullying members.

Called it
 

Didn’t I?

I ask my Panhellenic sisters to join me in expressing my disgust at any NPC organization that uses the threat of termination to silence its members. Or, in the case of two organizations named in this thread, has apparently already done so.

What have we come to? I am certain that my revered founder would be in the forefront of those protesting. I know what she stood for and why she founded Kappa Alpha Theta. Study our history and reconcile it with current events.

October 14, 2023, there was a Washington Post “Deep Read” about Artemis Langford. What makes for better reading, IMO, are the letters to the editor that followed its publication. Will copy and paste and edit my post in just a few minutes.

On my tablet, difficulty copying and pasting, will try this afternoon since I have ~ 24 hours to edit my post. Apologies.

AZ Theta, the author of the article is named Willy Wang.....

@oncegreek :D:D:D

Wondered if anyone… uh, yeah, okay, quit while you can *muttering to self*

Here's the Washington Post article:

https://wapo.st/3MQRl1c

Washington Post Letters to the Editor re Artemis, with comments:

https://wapo.st/40H57cp

Can someone please reply to that “numina” idiot and tell them you can’t just “leave and join another one”?

Well these same people believe it's possible for someone to just leave their biological sex behind and "join" another one, soooo... :rolleyes:

I still want to know how he got a bid with below a 2.0.

Well, never mind.

I would like to know that as well. How was Langford even allowed to participate in recruitment with that GPA?