Corporate Culture Clash?

[RACooper]

Over the past while through personal experience and conversations with friends and colleagues I have noticed that there is a definite increase in what could be called “culture clash” in the corporate world… specifically between Americans and Canadians/Europeans. Now don’t get me wrong people have always had different ways of doing things and complaints have always come of this… however it now seems that there is an underlying resentment on the parts of Canadians and Europeans within the American corporate culture… with the most common cited complaint being arrogance of the American corporate culture in dealing with either Canada or Europe, a general unwillingness to listen to advice or suggestions from the “natives” and instead dictating.

Now it stands to reason that I will really only hear a biased opinion... but even so I have heard roughly the same thing at some seminars dealing with corporate culture and teamwork, both from American and Canadian speakers.

Has anyone else heard or seen this in their corporate environment? Preferably someone else that works in an international or multinational corporation… Or would anyone like to refute this? I would be interested in hearing as many opinions on the issue as possible, as it seems to be the subject of conversation at both work and at my golf club.

[swissmiss04]

I'm a temp worker at the Mercedes plant here. At the most recent job I had, I witnessed quite a few heated exchanges between the Germans and the Americans there. The mentality was "Once you cross the white fence, you're in Germany whether you like it or not!" There are definitely different ways of identifying and solving problems. I think it was definitely the fault of both parties for not displaying a willingness to compromise in working towards a common goal.

[Kevin]

This is nothing new. Just about every communication textbook addresses it. It's not unique to Americans vs. Europeans either. It happens with Asians and Europeans, Africans, Latin Americans.

Different cultures are just that.. different. Any manager who fails to recognize that is going to experience a clash no matter where they're from.

[damasa]

Originally posted by RACooper
with the most common cited complaint being arrogance of the American corporate culture in dealing with either Canada or Europe, a general unwillingness to listen to advice or suggestions from the “natives” and instead dictating.

This in itself is an ignorant statement and/or view. People sometimes view Europe as "one culture" and that is simply not true at all. This was one of the first topics we discussed in my Org Management class (boring stuff mostly).

Anyway, Americans and Canadians tend to think like this, that mindset where "Europe is one large business culture." It's not, and I've seen many Americans and Canadians (and others come off as quite ignorant when addressing this issue).

There are many arrogant business cultures in Europe, America isn't alone in this aspect. Germans are known for being quite bullish and pigheaded when doing business on an international or multicultural scale. The Dutch can also be quite aggressive as well as the Swiss at times. It just really depends on the nature of the business and the situation.

A lot of it could also stem from resentment in the fact that Corporate America is hardworking (sometimes much harder working than other European countries). It is not uncommom for business persons in France, Spain, or Portugal (to name a few) to take the family for a vacation that can sometimes last a month or longer.

Blah blah blah....you get the point.

[Rudey]

Someone who isn't in the corporate world all of a sudden knows about corporate cultures.

-Rudey
--Perhaps it's just more America envy.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by damasa
This in itself is an ignorant statement and/or view. People sometimes view Europe as "one culture" and that is simply not true at all. This was one of the first topics we discussed in my Org Management class (boring stuff mostly).

Anyway, Americans and Canadians tend to think like this, that mindset where "Europe is one large business culture." It's not, and I've seen many Americans and Canadians (and others come off as quite ignorant when addressing this issue).

There are many arrogant business cultures in Europe, America isn't alone in this aspect. Germans are known for being quite bullish and pigheaded when doing business on an international or multicultural scale. The Dutch can also be quite aggressive as well as the Swiss at times. It just really depends on the nature of the business and the situation.

A lot of it could also stem from resentment in the fact that Corporate America is hardworking (sometimes much harder working than other European countries). It is not uncommom for business persons in France, Spain, or Portugal (to name a few) to take the family for a vacation that can sometimes last a month or longer.

Blah blah blah....you get the point.

I used the term Europeans because that is how they identify themselves... the Brits, Dutch, French, and Germans see themselves as having more in common with each other... and because they have been grouped that way by the others as well. I worry that it is too "clique-y", with Canadians and Europeans vs Americans at the office... but that is the way it's shaping up.

As for the comment about corporate America being more hardworking, that is actually the opposite of the general attitude towards the "rift"... general the complaint has been that the Americans will just throw more money at the problem or customers instead of actually working through the problem. But again that is just repeating what I have been told, from both a middle and upper management level...

Oh well I'll be gone soon, because the summer will end I have become to tired of knocking my head against a brickwall at work... so I have moved on to another corporation.

[swissmiss04]

I wouldn't call it cliquey. It's just human nature that similar people tend to stick together. That's why people join GLOs, civic orgs, etc. We crave familiarity. I also wouldn't be so quick to lump people of certain nationalities into neat categories. There are hard working and lazy people of all persuasions. Just respect people as individuals and not as (fill in nationality here).

[damasa]

Originally posted by RACooper
I used the term Europeans because that is how they identify themselves... the Brits, Dutch, French, and Germans see themselves as having more in common with each other... and because they have been grouped that way by the others as well. I worry that it is too "clique-y", with Canadians and Europeans vs Americans at the office... but that is the way it's shaping up.

As for the comment about corporate America being more hardworking, that is actually the opposite of the general attitude towards the "rift"... general the complaint has been that the Americans will just throw more money at the problem or customers instead of actually working through the problem. But again that is just repeating what I have been told, from both a middle and upper management level...

For the most part I'd have to disagree with you. Of course our opinions differ with our experiences but my father has been doing business in Europe most of his life and considering he is a dual citizen (America and Germany) I'm going to take him on what his experiences are and have been. He has also given training sessions on this exact topic to employees ofhis former company because they did so much business in Europe (Germany, France, Spain, Switzerland, Netherlands). He told me that he often found that many people in Europe got quite upset when other people simply grouped them as "one culture." Whether they identify with it or not or define themselves as any type of "clique" they infact tend to distance themselves from other business cultures in Europe.

As for throwing out money to solve a problem, all I really have to say is you have to spend money to make money. And I stand by the statement that many business cultures in Europe can sometimes resent the fact that sometimes Americans work harder (not all the time).

Of course I can't generalize because not everyone is the same, not all Americans turn a blind eye to other business cultures. Had that been the case i wouldn't be replying now.

Not to keep using my father, but he had several clients in France, Spain and Italy and he ran into problems a few times. A few times he had been working on deals where the party just up and left for vacation without any notice or warning (mid-deal). One guy in France left for two months without notifying my father (in which during that time the deal was supposed to be finalized). He also had no way to get in touch with the individual.

[Taualumna]

My dad works in New York, and he says that people there are more likely to stay all night than people in Toronto. For many here, the latest they'll stay is maybe 10 or 11 pm. In New York, many actually stay until 5 or 6 am the next morning, rush home to shower and change and rush back. That is, if they actually live in the city.

[Sistermadly]

I'm an American who works in an international (though largely Canadian) work environment. While many Americans are arrogant and agressive with respect to their Canadian and International, all of us are not, and I for one, resent like all hell being painted with that same broad brush. The company I work for is based in Hong Kong (and has thousands of employees around the world); trust me, Americans are not the only ones who give off a sense of cultural superiority when it comes to business.
</soapbox>

Any good corporation worth its salt would do well to invest time (and yes, money) on instructing its employees on creating a supportive corporate environment that respects individuality, but that at the same time, teaches them how to behave as citizens of the world while doing the Company's business. I'm lucky enough to work for such an employer.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Taualumna
My dad works in New York, and he says that people there are more likely to stay all night than people in Toronto. For many here, the latest they'll stay is maybe 10 or 11 pm. In New York, many actually stay until 5 or 6 am the next morning, rush home to shower and change and rush back. That is, if they actually live in the city.

What does your dad do? Does he work in banking or some type of investment related field? Because that is an American culture that Europeans were forced to accept to be able to compete with their American partners but I don't know too many other fields where you work those hours.

-Rudey

[Taualumna]

He is in the investment field.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Taualumna
He is in the investment field.

Well anyway those are not normal hours in every field. Also basically the better the group, the better the firm, the better the country, then the longer hours.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
I'm an American who works in an international (though largely Canadian) work environment. While many Americans are arrogant and agressive with respect to their Canadian and International, all of us are not, and I for one, resent like all hell being painted with that same broad brush. The company I work for is based in Hong Kong (and has thousands of employees around the world); trust me, Americans are not the only ones who give off a sense of cultural superiority when it comes to business.
</soapbox>

Any good corporation worth its salt would do well to invest time (and yes, money) on instructing its employees on creating a supportive corporate environment that respects individuality, but that at the same time, teaches them how to behave as citizens of the world while doing the Company's business. I'm lucky enough to work for such an employer.

I guess I'm a little ticked myself... been fighting the good fight all summer, and yet it doesn't seem to make a difference. However I have noticed that there is a difference between say New York offices and Chicago offices, with the NY people being more willing to debate an approach.. but unfortunately the people I have to deal with are at the Chicago office, and they are somewhat intractable in their ways (they talk a good game, but lack follow-through). I do understan it's enough of an issue that the Canadian, Dutch, and British offices have book seminars to try an help the employee's understand the different cultural practices in relation to business... I don't know what it is but at the Chicago office I have to constantly deal with little jabs at Canada over politics (think of dealing with a toned-down Rudey), and I have given up... what's the point of trying to export the business model if they don't want it; even if that's the reason they want you...

[Rudey]

So first it was his friend that told him this stuff.
Now it's from his experience (how much experience I would like to ask).

Again, we would all love to see some case studies on this. Of course most of us have to go to business schools to see such case studies but I'm sure he can provide them.

Or maybe not?

Maybe this thread was just a way for Canadians who sleep in the shadow of the US to sit and mock and take jabs at the US. Added were imaginary stories about him having contact with employees from the Chicago office of his firm that made fun of him for being Canadian (because we all know employees engage in that sort of behavior with people they've known shortly).

-Rudey