Auburn or Alabama News?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by justamom
So, you want to force a young, innocent girl into one of the "Old Row" sororities, want to make some 18 year old the sacrificial lamb?

I want the Old Row houses to realize that the war is over and they lost. That goes for most of the South, actually.

[BrownEyedGirl]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I want the Old Row houses to realize that the war is over and they lost. That goes for most of the South, actually.

So how long have you lived in the South, experienced the culture, and witnessed the broad spectrums of viewpoints and beliefs? And at what exact point did you decide that we (ALL of us below the Mason-Dixon line) skipped the entire Post-Civil War section of History 101? What I want is for people to stop assuming they know a great deal about the South based on what the (often biased or limited in exposure) media displays to them, what they see on the Dukes of Hazzard, or what they extract from Gone with the Wind and mentally place on today's college campuses. Life has changed, people have changed, times have changed. The war's over, we got that - now maybe it's time for you to realize it too. Walk a mile in our shoes - in church, in chapter, on our campuses. Then maybe you'll be informed enough to begin making snap judgments.

[Jill1228]

You got a lot of great points goin' on girl!

I think what is getting lost in the issue is--if African-American women don't go through recruitment, they can't be pledged

This recent thread made this point
Controversy

I for one, am SO glad this is being discussed! Because of being a Black woman, I had a lot of reservations about pursuing AI. Then I found GC and that all went out the window Things are a lot more open now than when I was in college!

W&L ain't THAT southern! I grew up in Virginia Beach. I know W&L is very Greek but wasn't it only the past few years that they admitted women (it used to be all fellas...I think it went coed when I graduated from HS in 1985).

Let's keep "tawking amongst ourselves!"

[Sistermadly]

JAM, I'm interested to know: what's your idea of forcing someone into the Old Row sororities?

And why do we continue to distinguish between "old row" and "new row" (or whatever it's called)? As long as we do that, then that binary opposition of old/new, good house/bad house, "elite"/"they take anybody" will continue to exist.

In the Controversy thread, I said that forced integration isn't the answer, because it breeds animosity and mistrust in the PNM and in the chapter. But you know.. I just take a whole lot of (*blankety blank*) offense to the suggestion that just because someone of a different ethnic group joins a house that their reputation is instantly sullied. It's almost ALWAYS directed at African American women, because from what I've seen personally, Asian and Latina women have been in NPC for ages, but I've never heard anyone say that they're a detriment to their houses.

I'll try to get back on point here. Integration has to happen for the reasons that sugar and spice and Munchkin03 noted in their posts. The NPC will always be targeted for what some people see as a failure to embrace diversity. Like it or not, it's the NPC that has the larger burden of proof in this case, because of our history of discriminatory practices based on race and religion.

Munchkin03 is right - none of the NPHC organizations ever race-based restrictions on their clauses. That's not to say that maybe some chapters in certain areas put up barriers that discouraged non-blacks from joining, but they don't have a legacy of racial intolerance to make up for in the way that the NPC does. I think NPC has gone a long way toward making it plain that discrimination based on race, religion, creed, or national origin is not to be tolerated within this conference, but I think that maybe the individual organizations should make a point of "gently urging" progress on campuses where "tradition" rules.

[33girl]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I want the Old Row houses to realize that the war is over and they lost. That goes for most of the South, actually.

whoa whoa WHOA.

We're not talking about a bunch of politicians and pundits for whom the fight is more fun/important than the win. We're talking about 18 year old girls. I would hate to think that any woman anywhere received a bid just so the chapter can show their PCness and has to live out her college years in some sort of sterile environment where no one is themself around her because they don't feel comfy around her. I've seen it when chapters take girls simply because of high GPAs, or because they have a particular talent (like athetics or music) that the sorority might "need."

We're seeing such a small part of what goes on at Bama...how does the rest of the college relate? Are there dorms where different races cluster? Do black and white athletes mix? What I'm trying to say is, is the lack of diversity in the Greek system an anomaly? If not, then this is a problem for the whole school to deal with, not just the sororities.

Again, I think it's deplorable that this young lady's name was even released to the press. She deserves to have her Greek experience be a happy time, not a media circus.

[33girl]

This relates to Sistermadly's post....saying integration has to happen...what I want to see is a national colonization team picking a bunch of women who are sweet, intelligent and kind, but are also overweight and dirt poor. I think we'll see "Doggy Fizzle Televizzle" live from the Old Row houses before that happens.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
So how long have you lived in the South, experienced the culture, and witnessed the broad spectrums of viewpoints and beliefs? And at what exact point did you decide that we (ALL of us below the Mason-Dixon line) skipped the entire Post-Civil War section of History 101? What I want is for people to stop assuming they know a great deal about the South based on what the (often biased or limited in exposure) media displays to them, what they see on the Dukes of Hazzard, or what they extract from Gone with the Wind and mentally place on today's college campuses. Life has changed, people have changed, times have changed. The war's over, we got that - now maybe it's time for you to realize it too. Walk a mile in our shoes - in church, in chapter, on our campuses. Then maybe you'll be informed enough to begin making snap judgments.

I just spent a week in the south visiting family. I did not say ALL, I said most. I'm not sure if "ya'll" have logic classes down there, but some != all.

I did not mean to imply that every single southern person was racist/stuck in 1865. Having spoken to family members who were Greek at 'Bama, Georgia, etc, I know a little bit about the situation...I'm not sure where you thought I declared myself an expert.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
So how long have you lived in the South, experienced the culture, and witnessed the broad spectrums of viewpoints and beliefs? And at what exact point did you decide that we (ALL of us below the Mason-Dixon line) skipped the entire Post-Civil War section of History 101? What I want is for people to stop assuming they know a great deal about the South based on what the (often biased or limited in exposure) media displays to them, what they see on the Dukes of Hazzard, or what they extract from Gone with the Wind and mentally place on today's college campuses. Life has changed, people have changed, times have changed. The war's over, we got that - now maybe it's time for you to realize it too. Walk a mile in our shoes - in church, in chapter, on our campuses. Then maybe you'll be informed enough to begin making snap judgments.

Dude I don't even know where the Mason-Dixon line is.... I must be a dumbass.

Anyways, I think some people on here are basing this situation on how SOME (not all) of the Southerners are acting in the forum. On Livejournal some Southerners have even come in there saying that some school's recruitment isn't as big a deal as what SOME Southerners are making of it on here.

I guess us Northerners will never understand and maybe it's not meant for us to understand. Oh well....

Good Luck to Michigan schools and may we continue to stay diverse!

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by 33girl
I think we'll see "Doggy Fizzle Televizzle" live from the Old Row houses before that happens.

ROFL.. but in seeing some of the photos from recent NPC colonizations, I've seen overweight women represented. Since I don't have access to their bank statements, I can only vouch for myself in the "dirt poor" category.

[damasa]

Originally posted by Angels&Arrows
DIMPLES = always smiling, always upbeat, happy (you see dimples when someone is smiling)!!

I am so tired of people bashing something they do not understand!

Everyone on here talks about Southern girls/sororities need to be more diverse, more open minded and YOU do not even try to understand... It is not what YOU believe, so it is automatically wrong/bad and everyone that is part of that system needs to be bashed or corrected? The most interesting part of these comments to me.. as a TRUE southern girl might think you are wrong, or not like your opinions, but she would never make fun of you in public; as a matter-of fact she would be very polite to you!!!!!!!!!

I haven't posted on GC in quite some time but after reading this post I had to say something.

Note, this isn't an attack and if you take it that way, reread it.

First a few people does not = everyone so lets get that generalization out of the way right now. Second you say "YOU" as if everyone is saying it, again, that's not the case, so lets get that out of the way also.

You say that certain people don't try to understand, what is to understand about a chapter that doesn't open their doors to miniority members? Why should someone have to understand that? That is a form of segregation and it really shouldn't be tolerated.

But some people say "it's the way it is or the way it has always been." Things change and somethings call for change. Some situations need change.

Let us take "hazing" for instance. Hazing was once a "tradition" to many chapters at many schools and granted it might still be at some. The point is there was a time and a need for change and a lot of sororities and fraternities started to undergo that change. I don't care if I'm not part of a chapter, but if I see hazing or related activites I feel I do have the right to say something because that chapter could possibly tarnish the reputation for other greek orgs on/off campus.

I am not from the south and I'm nost saying greek systems in the south are bad because I'm not. I'm not taking any sides on this issue.

All I'm saying is that in response to this post is that just because something is "tradition" or has been going strong since the early 1800's doesn't mean that it is right. It could be an accepted practice, but that doesn't make it fair.

With time comes change....

I bid you all good day.

[justamom]

First-breathesgelatin-Your post was so great, I have no words.

Second-Let's PLEASE distinguish between a personal opinion and observations. I write lengthy posts as it is and I get the distinct feeling that often, due to length, many concepts are
not absorbed, or maybe I need to spell thing out...

In the article-THEY refered to "old row" sorry I didn't put quotes around it! LSU has the same thing-Old Row and New Row just one of those little points of historic pride I guess.

OK-here goes. Never intended to imply it was MY opinion a black girl would sully a rep...Sadly, I can't say the same for others. I am SORRY that some individuals do not like any other race but their own. These types of individuals exist in ALL races. JUST BECAUSE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT OR AGREE WITH IT DOES NOT MEAN IT DOESN'T EXIST. Can we agree on THAT point?


Sometimes I think people consider Latins more "white".
WHY????
Am I wrong on this?----At one point, I believe that there was a practice that used a paper bag to check the darkness of the color. Is this true? If a man or woman was darker than the paper bag, they were often discriminated against...by their own race. Does this practice still exist? If so, how different is that from SOME PEOPLE thinking of Latinos as "more white" than other races. Gawd, this is such a horrific conversation, but I hate it when people think I feel one way, when what I am actually posting is a compilation of life observances-I usually make it pretty clear when I believe something is right or wrong.

NOT ALL BIGOTRY TAKES PLACE IN THE SOUTH!

What everyone is bitching about is a CAMPUS atmosphere. Not any particular GLO, but a HANDFUL of chapters on "A" campus. I don't know HOW XYZ feels about pledging women who are not white on THIS campus, but I know on OTHER campuses they are pledging women for the person they ARE, not because of some integration/segragation issue.

I guess ALL NPC sororities have a friggin piece of paper that says NO DISCRIMINATION. I will say this ONE MORE TIME. Until there are enough people within any given chapter to out vote by whatever percentage it takes, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE! ABC will keep pledging the barbies, XYZ will keep pledging the brains and QRS will be known for their diversity, unless, the entire selection process is overthrown!

I too agree Jill1288-this is a great post!
I think what is getting lost in the issue is--if African-American women don't go through recruitment, they can't be pledged

SO, aren't we trying to close the gate after the horse is out of the barn? (How's THAT for some Southern hick!) This has to go back to the kids-the schools and the parents. You all who are active now, young parents, soon to be married-step up and raise your kids to be open and loving to ALL people. I think I did a damn good job on that count! I'll tell you this, if you think MY generation has any power to change the way things are-it is a SPECK compared to the power YOU have. We can make all the rules anyone could want, but by the very nature of the selection process AND the secrecy involved how can ANYONE force this issue? It MUST be an inner change, starting within one's self

[33girl]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
ROFL.. but in seeing some of the photos from recent NPC colonizations, I've seen overweight women represented. Since I don't have access to their bank statements, I can only vouch for myself in the "dirt poor" category.

Just to clarify, I mean the "national team comes in and chooses all the women" sort of colonization, not the "national takes on a previously existing local" sort. Not to pick a nitizzle.

Edited so I didn't make 2 posts - this goes back to you can't bid people if they don't pledges. Don't some universities have some sort of separate orientation programs for blacks and/or other minorities? What kind of extracurricular activities are mentioned during these sessions? What I'm trying to say is, if all you tell the black students about is the Black Student Union and the NPHC groups, won't it stand to reason that they'll assume these are the "correct" activities to take place in and anything else is "incorrect"?

That sounds bad as I read it, but I don't know how else to word it...

[carnation]

Okay, now I'm pissed off and I'm locking this thread--the first one I've ever locked--because I'm revolted at what this thread has become. Greeklawgirl started this great thread on AU and Bama rush and look what's happened. First I got flamed for supposedly insulting someone by saying, tongue in cheek, that I hoped some Pi Phi pledges were sweet. Then the minute the news was announced about Carla Ferguson, it turned into a "flame the South because they're racists and idiots who want sweet girls" and "flame NPC because they're majority white". People have tried to make some intelligent points and gotten insulted for their pains.

Y'all know that I am wholly against discrimination and you know why but when we get into generalization against innocent people, insults, etc., people are only going to get hurt--you should see the emails and pms I've gotten. If you want to carry on this kind of flame war, do it by pm.