Why is Rush so Cut-throat on the Sororities' End at Big Greek Schools?

[MSKKG]

Maybe yes, maybe no. If quota were 50 and she was ranked #51 or more on Sorority B's list and Sorority B filled quota before reaching her number, then she wouldn't have gotten a bid from Sorority B regardless.

I hope she gives Sorority C a chance. Soon she may wonder why in the world she ranked it 3rd!

[AZ-AlphaXi]

it wouldn't have mattered if she had put B in 1st or 2nd. Since the bid matching
moved all the way to her third choice, she never made it onto the first bid list of
either A or B. Both made quota before they reached her name.

[gee_ess]

Ditto above. She was not higher on A or B's lists than she was on C's thus she gets a C bid. Her rankings would not have made a difference.

[breathesgelatin]

Wait... are we sure?

OK, so let's say that Sorority A filled their quota with their entire first bid list (for the sake of argument). Everyone they put on their first bid list ranked them #1 (unlikely, but just for the example).

Sorority B only filled 3/4 of quota with their first bid list. Let's say quota was 100. They filled 75 places with their matches. They have 25 places left to fill.

OK, so once all the 1-1 matches have been made (you are automatically matched with a chapter if you rank it first and they put you on their first bid list).

The next thing the program tries to do, as I understand it, is match any PNM who ranked a chapter #1 with that chapter, assuming they are high enough on the bid list. Right? So if the PNM that's #101 on sorority B's bid list ranked them first, that's an automatic match. So on and so forth. Now, if the PNM that's #101 on sorority B's bid list ranked them third, that's NOT an automatic match at this point. Right? So they'd move on to see if the PNM who's #102 on the bid list ranked sorority B first. If she did, they'd match her. Only when they've exhausted people's #1 rankings do they start moving to #2 rankings. The PNMs get preference...

I really thought this was the way bid matching worked. Is it not?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Only when they've exhausted people's #1 rankings do they start moving to #2 rankings. The PNMs get preference...

I really thought this was the way bid matching worked. Is it not?

You are right! The computer program (assuming that it's ICS which is what 99% of schools use) is set up to try and match each PNM with her #1 choice. That's what it goes by. It only moves to #2 choices when the #1 is no longer available.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

You are right! The computer program (assuming that it's ICS which is what 99% of schools use) is set up to try and match each PNM with her #1 choice. That's what it goes by. It only moves to #2 choices when the #1 is no longer available.

OK! That's what I thought. So, in theory, if Sorority B had twenty-five spaces left after filling up from their first bid list, they would move down the list, matching everyone who ranked Sorority B #1... So in theory, if the friend in question had ranked Sorority B #1, there is a slight chance she might have ended up there over Sorority C... but there is no way we will ever know that. It all depends on where exactly Sorority B put her on THEIR list. If every girl from 101-125 on Sorority B's bid list ranked Sorority B #1, and the PNM was #126 on Sorority B's bid list, she STILL wouldn't have gotten Sorority B.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

the way I understand it .. is that a PNMs preference is to be honored until it is clear that it can't be. So sorority A fills to quota with out reaching PNM, it goes to sorority B.
Sorority B is 3/4 to quota but she's still not on their first bid list. It continues to attempt to match her at B until B fills to quota. - as women match to other chapters they come off of B's first bid list and the spot is filled by the person next on their second bid list. Once you make it onto a chapter's first bid list, you stay there until you match elsewhere (because the PNM ranked that chapter higher) or you match to that chapter.

in this case since she was matched to sorority C, assuming that everything was done correctly, she never made it onto the first bid list of either A or B or she would have matched there, it doesn't matter which one was ranked first or second.

[gee_ess]

I think you are right that the PNM's choice takes priority. But I hate to think that PNM's are going to have to start thinking analytically when they pref! I stll think the fact that she was matched with her C choice tells me that she was not high on either A or B's lists. Also, in my experience, and depending on the strength of the chapter, those B lists are less reliably girls who pref that house #1. So, the placement is not as reliably cut and dried.
And, let's not forget the quota additions. Those always throw a monkey wrench in the works!

Bottom line - recruitment is a very strange animal, and trying to get a black and white answer to why something turned out like it did is almost impossible (particularly in the case of a PNM getting her third choice)

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Wait... are we sure?

OK, so let's say that Sorority A filled their quota with their entire first bid list (for the sake of argument). Everyone they put on their first bid list ranked them #1 (unlikely, but just for the example).

Sorority B only filled 3/4 of quota with their first bid list. Let's say quota was 100. They filled 75 places with their matches. They have 25 places left to fill.

OK, so once all the 1-1 matches have been made (you are automatically matched with a chapter if you rank it first and they put you on their first bid list).

The next thing the program tries to do, as I understand it, is match any PNM who ranked a chapter #1 with that chapter, assuming they are high enough on the bid list. Right? So if the PNM that's #101 on sorority B's bid list ranked them first, that's an automatic match. So on and so forth. Now, if the PNM that's #101 on sorority B's bid list ranked them third, that's NOT an automatic match at this point. Right? So they'd move on to see if the PNM who's #102 on the bid list ranked sorority B first. If she did, they'd match her. Only when they've exhausted people's #1 rankings do they start moving to #2 rankings. The PNMs get preference...

I really thought this was the way bid matching worked. Is it not?

I find this to be highly unlikely. B was her second choice not third. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the chapters ranking does make a difference. They wouldn't fill an entire class with women lower on the list just because that woman didn't put that sorority first. Computers are able to adjust the list as they go through the variables.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

the way I understand it .. is that a PNMs preference is to be honored until it is clear that it can't be. So sorority A fills to quota with out reaching PNM, it goes to sorority B.
Sorority B is 3/4 to quota but she's still not on their first bid list. It continues to attempt to match her at B until B fills to quota. - as women match to other chapters they come off of B's first bid list and the spot is filled by the person next on their second bid list. Once you make it onto a chapter's first bid list, you stay there until you match elsewhere (because the PNM ranked that chapter higher) or you match to that chapter.

in this case since she was matched to sorority C, assuming that everything was done correctly, she never made it onto the first bid list of either A or B or she would have matched there, it doesn't matter which one was ranked first or second.

This is correct: A PNM cannot be matched to her second choice chapter until her first choice chapter has reached quota. Likewise, a PNM cannot be matched to her third choice chapter until both her first and second choice chapters have reached quota.

If all chapters reach quota before a PNM is matched, the PNM will either be a quota addition or considered to have been (and I hate this term) "cross cut."

Quota additions are matched either by chapter size (smaller chapter getting priority for additions) or PNM's preference, depending upon the campus. Quota additions are interesting (to me, at least) because they are an instance where a PNM is more likely to get her first choice if she is low on the bid list of all of the chapters whose preference she attended. A PNM on the second bid list of each chapter she attends may end up with her third choice, while a chapter may end up with a quota addition who is the absolute last person on their bid list.

[breathesgelatin]

Thanks for all the responses to my post... I am getting more confused by the second here. I do understand what Az-AlphaXi and lyrelyre posted... maybe they're correct. The thing is just getting confusing to me. I guess the part that confuses me the most is when you move past the first bid lists, what happens. Say a chapter has 25 spaces left after exhausting their first bid list. Any girl that ranked them #1 and is on their list from 101-125 would be an automatic match, I assume. Any girl that ranked them #2 and for whose first choice house is already full would be an automatic match, I assume.

So the question is... Let's assume that the PNM in question, who ranked sorority B #2, was #126 on their bid list. Sorority B has filled 24 of their 25 remaining places with girls who ranked them #1, but were not on their first bid list. There's one spot in Sorority B left.

So who would match to Sorority B first? The PNM in question, who was #126 on their list and ranked them second, or another PNM, who was #127 on their list and ranked them first?

I agree, though, that there's no use thinking strategically when ranking chapters. Rank them how you really feel about them. There's also not much point second-guessing your rankings... As the various explanations demonstrate, you'll never really know what happened during your bid matching, and it's too complicated to really "out-think" the matching process. You should follow your heart.

But it's fun for others of us to obsess about this crap. LOL

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

So the question is... Let's assume that the PNM in question, who ranked sorority B #2, was #126 on their bid list. Sorority B has filled 24 of their 25 remaining places with girls who ranked them #1, but were not on their first bid list. There's one spot in Sorority B left.

So who would match to Sorority B first? The PNM in question, who was #126 on their list and ranked them second, or another PNM, who was #127 on their list and ranked them first?

Let me see if I can answer this..

If the sorority that the #126 PNM ranked first has filled quota then she will match to sorority B and #127 will not. The method will not move #127 onto the first bid list (ie where matches are made) until #126 moves off which she can only do in 2 ways. The first way is to match to her first choice, in which case #127 moves on to the list of B and matches. The second is to match with B when A has filled quota and by matching #126 B fills quota and #127 does not match with B. At this point the method attempts to match #127 with her second choice.

The key here is that the number of names on the first bid list plus the number of names on the matched list can never ever be more than quota. So, when a chapter has filled all quota spaces but 1, then their first bid list numbers 1 name and only 1 name until that there is a match. Then their first bid list numbers 0. You also need to remember, once a PNM moves onto a sorority's first bid list she does not move off it until she matches somewhere.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

Quota additions are matched either by chapter size (smaller chapter getting priority for additions) or PNM's preference, depending upon the campus. Quota additions are interesting (to me, at least) because they are an instance where a PNM is more likely to get her first choice if she is low on the bid list of all of the chapters whose preference she attended. A PNM on the second bid list of each chapter she attends may end up with her third choice, while a chapter may end up with a quota addition who is the absolute last person on their bid list.

The way I have seen QA's handled on one campus is that all of the houses who fill quota get QA's and they appear to be distributed on a fairly equal basis. No one on this campus ends up cross cut. Some houses may get one or two more QA's but it is determined based on how many of those bottom, bottom girls are not matched. They look at the numbers and start adding names to chapter matched bid lists. And you are right, the QA's almost always get their first choice whereas the girls caught in the middle of the B lists often get their second choice. Weird.

[carnation]

bump!

[Loyally Kappa]

I read this entire thread and had two thoughts:

1. I have never met anyone who got their 2nd or 3rd choice ... or at least, I've never met anyone who has admitted to it.

2. I have never met anyone who admitted to being a quota addition.