RFM-pref day - Page 2

AlphaXi_Husky · #16 08-16-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation

I'm not even sure how to put this into words. It just seems like maybe 3/4 of the PNMs we know who have been in this situation (so this would be dozens of women) end up with C.

AlphaXi_Husky, I guess that's what I'm saying. And a lot of times, C still doesn't make quota after various additions, etc.

For the first part, do you mean we as in your family, or we on Greek Chat? We've discussed before that Greek Chat seems to see more PNMs who didn't get their first (or second) choice, or who were dropped completely (or so they say), moreso than a PNM who was happily placed. So I think that's just more of a sample size issue, so to speak.

As for your second point, I agree with 33girl that it's not something that can be fixed during Recruitment. It's more of a Recruitment 365 sort of thing where the chapter needs to make itself stronger outside of the formal recruitment period in order to start better competing with stronger recruiting chapter once the next Recruitment rolls around.

I do think overall RFM has been very beneficial across the board. I don't think RFM has led to more people being placed in a C chapter when also preffing A & B chapters.

AlphaXi_Husky · #17 08-16-2015, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

Perhaps the only cure then is for even leaner pre-Pref invites for the strong recruiting chapters (SRWs). I say this because the snap bid lists are now put together at the same time as the bid list. If an SRW chapter misses quota, it's handled before invitations go out and no one is the wiser except the RFM specialist and maybe two chapter officers.

Or maybe leaner Pref invites?

That makes me so nervous though!

33girl · #18 08-16-2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaXi_Husky

I do think overall RFM has been very beneficial across the board. I don't think RFM has led to more people being placed in a C chapter when also preffing A & B chapters.

This x zillion.

clemsongirl · #19 08-16-2015, 11:16 AM

Part of the problem is that if C is truly such a weak-recruiting chapter, RFM can't force girls to accept bids there or list them after preference. Girls can say they'd rather not be Greek than be in C, and sending every quota addition their way won't change that. RFM helps weaker-recruiting chapters by forcing more girls to return to their parties which can hopefully give those weaker-recruiting a second chance to shine, but ultimately it can't solve problems that chapters have with recruiting itself.

carnation · #20 08-16-2015, 11:17 AM

I'm talking about everywhere. Yes, on GC, but mostly women whom I know through various groups,from being in school with my daughters (I have 9), students of 2 of my kids who are teachers, just from various places. I would say I personally know at least 40 PNMs every year and maybe 5-10 end up in the A, B, or C scenario. And at schools where C is an extremely WRC, if the girl gets C, she walks away from her bid.

MaryPoppins · #21 08-16-2015, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Honestly, I think this is one of those times when you have to look past bid day and at retention. Are those girls who get placed in C finishing pledgeship, initiating and staying members throughout college, or are they overwhelmingly not showing up for bid day or depledging? If it's the latter, then maybe it's time to relax RFM as far as letting C cut girls that show zero interest. RFM was intended to place more women, not to put chapters that are already nervous in rush further through the emotional wringer.

Even better!

MaryPoppins · #22 08-16-2015, 11:26 AM

But when should the RFM specialist permit the release of the PNMs that keep putting a WRC last? Part of RFM practice is to reduce the number of rounds meaning less time for Chapters and PNMs to gain an accurate read or correct misconceptions about one another. Seems like the reduction of the SRC chapter invites needs to come earlier for best results overall.

AlphaXi_Husky · #23 08-16-2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation

I'm talking about everywhere. Yes, on GC, but mostly women whom I know through various groups,from being in school with my daughters (I have 9), students of 2 of my kids who are teachers, just from various places. I would say I personally know at least 40 PNMs every year and maybe 5-10 end up in the A, B, or C scenario. And at schools where C is an extremely WRC, if the girl gets C, she walks away from her bid.

I think it's just a numbers game at that point though. If you've known 40 PNMs and 1/8 to 1/4 of them get a bid to a WRC, or even the weakest RC, then honestly that sounds about right to me. Even if the other Pref parties they went to weren't other WRCs. Just like I would expect 1/8 to 1/4 of them to get SRCs or even the strongest RC, even if they had only the SRC and two WRC for Pref.

Do PNMs preffing SRCs tend to pref other SRCs? Sure. However I've noticed now that RFM has been going on a while, there is a lot more cross-preffing between SRCs and just-okay RCs, and even WRCs.

As for your last sentence, I'm sure you would agree that's more of a campus environment thing than anything else. RFM isn't going to help that much in that situation.

33girl · #24 08-16-2015, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

But when should the RFM specialist permit the release of the PNMs that keep putting a WRC last? Part of RFM practice is to reduce the number of rounds meaning less time for Chapters and PNMs to gain an accurate read or correct misconceptions about one another. Seems like the reduction of the SRC chapter invites needs to come earlier for best results overall.

Honestly, I think that's up to the WRC. Unless you've spent your life in a cave, you can usually tell the difference between a girl who is genuinely amazed that she is liking your chapter more than she thought she would and is just listing you last because someone has to be last, and the girl who is just never going to budge or give you a chance. I know that's very hard to quantify or communicate to an RFM specialist though.

carnation · #25 08-16-2015, 11:41 AM

I've already talked with several PNMs this year who've been in or are in this situation. "How should I gamble? That I list all 3 and hope for A or B? Or should I only list A and B and hope I don't get the call?"

Had we had this situation when I was rushing, I would've been a basket case!

AlphaXi_Husky · #26 08-16-2015, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation

I've already talked with several PNMs this year who've been in or are in this situation. "How should I gamble? That I list all 3 and hope for A or B? Or should I only list A and B and hope I don't get the call?"

Had we had this situation when I was rushing, I would've been a basket case!

I think it really depends on if they can see themselves in Chapter C. If they can't, or they're going to ruin bid day by crying all over Chapter C's decorations and spirits, then don't list Chapter C.

If it's the type of campus where it's "pledge as a freshman or don't even try going Greek", then it depends on how badly the PNM wants to be Greek, ANY Greek.

It's a tough call in any case!

LAblondeGPhi · #27 08-16-2015, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation

Ladies who are RFM experts: let's say that a PNM has 3 parties on pref day. She likes 2 (A and B), hates the other one (C). A and B have always made quota. C never makes quota--right off, anyway.

She lists A and B only on her MRABA but doesn't get a bid. Most of us have seen this scenario. How often have you seen this happen? If the third sorority doesn't usually make quota, does it seem to you that that's the bid that girls get in such a scenario?

I realize that it's different for every girl and that it depends where they're placed on the sorority's list. It's just that so often, it seems to me like the PNM gets C.

I think in this scenario, it is slightly more likely for the PNM to get a bid to C chapter than in a scenario where she is preffing three relatively equal chapters and/or where the C chapter typically makes quota just fine.

Reason 1:
This is going to assume that there is a relative gradation of PNM "desirability" that is somewhat even across chapters. Yes, I know that chapter personality and fit are all major factors, but you still tend to see similar strength chapters compete more frequently with each other for PNMs.

If A and B are significantly stronger chapters, then it may be the case that PNM is already near the middle or lower end of those chapter's pref lists. A and B will likely have many women they like just as much as PNM from which to choose. Thus, RFM isn't doing anything to push these PNMs into C, it's more that the scenario is kind of pre-indicating that PNM is more likely to match with C.

Reason 2:
The Quota Addition rules are helpful for PNMs in making the decision to maximize options really only if all the chapters she has tend to make quota. The only benefit to including a chapter that she ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT WANT A BID FROM on her MRABA is in the event that she is not matched with A and B - then she hopes that she is not matched with C so that she can be hand-placed into one of the other chapters as a QA. If C rarely/never makes quota, then PNM receives no benefit to maximizing her options, in the event she truly would turn down the C bid anyway.

Edit: Or at least, this is how I understand RFM to work on most campuses!

Sciencewoman · #28 08-16-2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

If A and B are significantly stronger chapters, then it may be the case that PNM is already near the middle or lower end of those chapter's pref lists. A and B will likely have many women they like just as much as PNM from which to choose. Thus, RFM isn't doing anything to push these PNMs into C, it's more that the scenario is kind of pre-indicating that PNM is more likely to match with C.

This!

KDCat · #29 08-16-2015, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation

I've already talked with several PNMs this year who've been in or are in this situation. "How should I gamble? That I list all 3 and hope for A or B? Or should I only list A and B and hope I don't get the call?"

Had we had this situation when I was rushing, I would've been a basket case!

My advice is to NOT list C unless you are willing to accept a bid from them and make it work. If you HATE C, then don't list them. The most likely outcome is that you are going to be placed at C, rather than be a quota addition. You are better off not being bound to a C bid and hoping for COB opportunities.

ladybug12 · #30 08-16-2015, 09:26 PM

I agree. In reality, what percentage of PNMs get placed as QA's? I am seeing some campuses where there are huge quota additions, but these groups are making quota (and everyone else is also). SO this is probably a newer GLO on campus vs a WRC that has been improving their numbers over the past few years but their RRS is not high enough for them to release lots of PNMS...thus they have more PNMS in their parties. But they are matching more of them and more are showing up on Bid Day..some of these groups are the largest in number on their campuses after recruitment. Overall, retention over the years is the largest factor....and that is up to each chapter to remedy over time. It is one thing to only get 30 on bid day when quota is 60...totally another to get 75 on bid day when quota is 60 and you only initiate 40 of them.