"The Dreaded Phone Call"

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

if/when my daughter goes through recruitment and the chapte3r decides to release her, I hope to hell they would call me before my daughter finds out about it so I can be prepared when she calls me upset.....I see both sides of the issue, but I think it's courteous to notify the alumnae family member if a legacy is cut.

I also agree with the previous statement that a PNM would not be alone if devasted about being cut from a legacy house (or any other) because they have their Rho Chi for support and guidance during recruitment. That is the job of the Rho Chi (or whatever they call them anymore).

I must not have articulated it clearly enough. The coordinator was concerned that the member (mother, sister, grandmother, etc...) would call the PNM and tell her she was released before the recruitment counselor. In that case, she could be alone when she was informed.

I believe this has been mentioned on the other thread: I, as recruitment advisor, strongly encourage the actives to give the release of a legacy a great deal of thought. I ask them to think about how they would feel if this was their younger sister or daughter. Releasing a legacy can make a member cut ties with the chapter (and sometimes the entire organization). Likewise, I remind them that bidding a legacy can really encourage an alumna to become much more active.

Conversely, I know that it can be frustrating to the members when a woman has never participated in a single alumnae event that we have held, yet expects us to automatically bid her legacy.

[AlphaFrog]

You know, I keep thinking about this...and I know my daughter won't be rushing for another 15 years, so I might feel differently then, but I still don't get why women get so upset over that phonecall. When they make that phone call, you are both sisters, discussing private membership selection information. We don't share closed/private information with our legacies about the meaning of our letters, symbols, ritual info, etc...why do we end up sharing private membership selection info with them.

If you read threads over in the D9 forums, you'll see that most of those ladies take a "If my daughter is good enough to get into MY sorority attitude". One AKA even mentioned that her daughter asked when she would get to be an AKA, and the mother replied "IF you get to be an AKA, just cause Momma made it, doesn't mean you will...". Now, I'm not jaded enough to think those mothers wouldn't be upset if their daughter doesn't make it...but they set their daughters up to KNOW that it's not an automatic thing, and they still have to work for it...which I think does them a huge favor in the end.

[AGDee]

After dedicating as many years of my life to my sorority in numerous (somewhat high profile) positions, I certainly would hope that I would be notified if my daughter was released from an Alpha Gam chapter. I would want to work through my own disappointment before having to help her deal with hers. If the kid continues on the path she's on now (4.0 GPA, marching band, Girl Scout, National Junior Honor Society and active in her church youth group and gets along with just about everybody she meets), she'd be an asset to any chapter. Granted, she'll probably go to a northern school where there are NOT more legacies going through recruitment than quota, so that wouldn't be an issue. As of right now, she very much wants to be an Alpha Gam, but she is also considering schools that don't have Alpha Gam chapters. It's entirely possible that she would choose a different group herself, but it would be nice if it was her choice!

As far as the school's argument that they wouldn't want her to be alone when she found out, in most of the recruitment stories we see on here, people sit at home waiting to see if they get "the phone call" that they have been released or didn't get a bid. Most of those women are alone when they find out, so I don't see how this is different. Additionally, if the mother/grandma/etc. is notified ahead of time, they could potentially be there to help the woman with the situation.

In my experience, the phone call that is made doesn't tell the person specifics about why the legacy was released so you're not really sharing private membership selection information. You're simply letting the initiated member know before the PNM finds out. It's a courtesy.

ETA: I'm only talking about legacies, not every woman recommended. If I wrote a rec for someone, I would not expect a phone call. For my daughter though? You bet I would expect one!

[alrphimu]

As an active, I'm sure I don't really see the full spectrum of this. Yes, when and if I have a daughter and when and if she decides to rush, I would be upset if Phi Mu cut her. However, just because a PNM is a legacy doesn't mean she has the correct personality for the respective chapter. I've seen legacies come through and their older sister/mother/aunt was a WONDERFUL attribute to the chapter, however the PNM really would be better suited in a different chapter on our campus. That being said, we may not release these girls, but if a legacy does get cut, it's silly for her mother to cut ties completely or be upset with the chapter...it's looking out for the best interest of her daughter.

As one of my Pi Chis (that's what we call Rho Chis) said, "Who really knows which chapter is best suited for you? Your mother, your best friend, or the chapter?"

[carnation]

I agree with AGDee; I would hope to get one. Based on what I've seen with competitive recruitments, that rarely happens, though.

I never even thought about the pain of a legacy being cut until my daughters were almost college age; I was too busy raising them. Then as I watched all these local legacies being cut, it came home. Some moms even left their sororities. They knew that it was a possibility, they knew that a lot of legacies were rushing but when someone rejects your child you take it personally.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by alrphimu

As an active, I'm sure I don't really see the full spectrum of this. Yes, when and if I have a daughter and when and if she decides to rush, I would be upset if Phi Mu cut her. However, just because a PNM is a legacy doesn't mean she has the correct personality for the respective chapter. I've seen legacies come through and their older sister/mother/aunt was a WONDERFUL attribute to the chapter, however the PNM really would be better suited in a different chapter on our campus. That being said, we may not release these girls, but if a legacy does get cut, it's silly for her mother to cut ties completely or be upset with the chapter...it's looking out for the best interest of her daughter.

As one of my Pi Chis (that's what we call Rho Chis) said, "Who really knows which chapter is best suited for you? Your mother, your best friend, or the chapter?"

I think that, with time as an alumna, you get a slightly different perspective too though. I was part of my collegiate chapter for 4 years but I've been part of Alpha Gamma Delta for 23 years now. Most of the sisters that I am friends with now are NOT from my chapter of initiation. I have become quite fond of sisters from all over the country and see the Fraternity as a whole in a different light.

[annabella]

I'm going to agree with most of what's been said. And the phone calls cannot be pleasant to make- our advisor handles them.

But I think what everyone's forgetting is a practicality issue- often, there just isn't enough TIME. Think about it, in a large recruitment (one large enough where legacy cuts become an issue) making invite lists is a task that will run well into the latenight, even the morning, depending on the chapter and how they do things. It's impossible to know whether or not that alumnae will want to receive a phone call at 2 am. And at my school, girls go meet with their Pi Chis and accept/decline their invites fairly early in the morning, then have a couple hours before the parties start.

When we have to make "the call," we usually make it the next morning. But in that scenario, it's problematic because the PNM has already received her invites, and the alumna may or may not have gotten "the call," from her legacy.

[honeychile]

Annabella, when the legacy involved is your child, you don't care if that phone call comes at 7pm, 11pm, or 3am - you want to be "there" for her. You will know this, deep down inside of you, should you ever have a daughter.

Mothers raise their daughters to love a certain GLO - their own GLO. Should their daughter be cut, for any reason, they want, they need to know. And frankly, most daughters would rather hear it from their mothers than from some relative stranger. Believe me, more than one mother has cut ties with their own sorority over the pain of watching their daughters cut from their mothers' sorority!

My mother counted on me pledging one sorority, and I pledged another (and I wasn't cut). I've been out of college more years than I care to think about, and she has only recently gotten over her grief that I didn't pledge her mother's sorority.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - we have GOT to revisit the NPC Legacy Situation before we lose more mothers and even more daughters!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by annabella

I'm going to agree with most of what's been said. And the phone calls cannot be pleasant to make- our advisor handles them.

But I think what everyone's forgetting is a practicality issue- often, there just isn't enough TIME. Think about it, in a large recruitment (one large enough where legacy cuts become an issue) making invite lists is a task that will run well into the latenight, even the morning, depending on the chapter and how they do things. It's impossible to know whether or not that alumnae will want to receive a phone call at 2 am. And at my school, girls go meet with their Pi Chis and accept/decline their invites fairly early in the morning, then have a couple hours before the parties start.

When we have to make "the call," we usually make it the next morning. But in that scenario, it's problematic because the PNM has already received her invites, and the alumna may or may not have gotten "the call," from her legacy.

I understand what you are saying from a practical standpoint, but the decision is possibly really important to the member who has the legacy going through rush. If the group outlines that she be called, then the chapter needs to make it a priority.

As far as I know, there's no reason you'd have to be voting on the legacies at 2 AM even if you are still in MS. You could decide on those first and then a designated alumna who didn't need to be at MS could start calling.

Basically, there are ways of addressing the practical problems and still honoring the relationship of the alumna member to the group IF your group has the policy.

Or at the next opportunity, those chapters than can't handle calling should try to change their policies. But it's not right to have a policy that the member would expect to be followed, and then to have her find out from a heartbroken legacy that she had been cut and for her to never get the phone call.

(Although I've personally expressed in another thread how it would make me mad to have a legacy cut, I don't think anyone is assuming legacies have an automatic "right" to join a chapter. I think all of us understand that the legacy has to be a well qualified recruitment guest in her own right, but when she appears to be well qualified (good grades, leadership, service, cute, etc), and the chapter is going to release her, at the least the chapter could follow its own GLO polices in notifying the member.)

[PeppyGPhiB]

I still like my sorority's policy of allowing the PNM to choose whether/when to notify her mother/grandmother/sis. Recruitment is about the PNM and the collegiate members, NOT the alumnae. That may be hard for some women to believe, but it IS...otherwise ALUMNAE would participate in recruitment, too. I think the PNM should have a right to privacy and to be the first to know. If I was a PNM cut by my mother's house during recruitment, I would be FURIOUS if I got a call from her telling me that or if I knew she knew before I did.

College students are adults. That's why most of them move out of the house or move far away when they go to college. Recruitment should be an experience they can go through without their mommies fighting the fights for them, or demanding to know things about their life at college before they even do.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

As far as I know, there's no reason you'd have to be voting on the legacies at 2 AM even if you are still in MS. You could decide on those first and then a designated alumna who didn't need to be at MS could start calling.

That might or might not work, depending on how the sorority does MS - you might not know until the end of MS who will be invited and who will be cut. To make up a silly example, let's say that according to the RFM, you can invite 150 women, and you choose by writing down the names of all the PNMs at your last round and throwing them into a hat and picking out 150 names. Until the 150th name is drawn, you won't know if Suzie Legacy is getting invited.

Anyway, personally, I don't think I'd be sick with worry about my hypothetical future daughter getting cut from AEPhi. Just because AEPhi was right for me doesn't mean it would be right for her, and I'd want her to follow her own heart.

[dgdramadawg]

I think the reason I'd be upset not to get a call is because I have always understood the policy to be that I would receive a call if my legacy was cut. It's not that I necessarily think that my sister is perfect for DG, for example, but I would be upset not to get a call if she was dropped by a DG chapter because my understanding is that I would get one in the event of that.

I think that's where a lot of women are coming from when it comes to saying they'd expect a call... not that they'd necessarily expect their sister/daughter to be bidded, just that they'd expect their sorority to follow policy if policy dictated a call.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I still like my sorority's policy of allowing the PNM to choose whether/when to notify her mother/grandmother/sis. Recruitment is about the PNM and the collegiate members, NOT the alumnae. That may be hard for some women to believe, but it IS...otherwise ALUMNAE would participate in recruitment, too. I think the PNM should have a right to privacy and to be the first to know. If I was a PNM cut by my mother's house during recruitment, I would be FURIOUS if I got a call from her telling me that or if I knew she knew before I did.

College students are adults. That's why most of them move out of the house or move far away when they go to college. Recruitment should be an experience they can go through without their mommies fighting the fights for them, or demanding to know things about their life at college before they even do.

YES YES YES YES YES! You took the words right out of my head.

[CarolinaCutie]

Phi Mu changed their policy in 2005; we used to notify alumnae if their legacies were cut, but we do not anymore due to privacy issues. This fact was publicized in our recent Aglaia, in an effort to alert alums of this policy so they won't be disappointed by not receiving that call.

I can see both sides of this discussion though. I completely agree with PeppyGPhiB but then I also place myself in the situation of the mother whose sorority has dropped her daughter.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by CarolinaCutie

Phi Mu changed their policy in 2005; we used to notify alumnae if their legacies were cut, but we do not anymore due to privacy issues. This fact was publicized in our recent Aglaia, in an effort to alert alums of this policy so they won't be disappointed by not receiving that call.

I can see both sides of this discussion though. I completely agree with PeppyGPhiB but then I also place myself in the situation of the mother whose sorority has dropped her daughter.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if more groups went to this policy, and if they do, that would be fine. But if you have the policy, you can't decide just that it's too much bother to honor it.

Some of us are looking at it from perspective that the group needs to reach out to the alumna to show her respect as a member, and another group who thinks that the call is all about the PNM. In my opinion it's not about the PNM that much at all; it's most certainly not an opportunity for the member to negotiate about MS.

No one is saying that the chapter has to defer to the alumnae in terms of who they choose as members, so I find it hard to understand why some of you think that calling an alumna to tell her about an outcome places her on the same status as the PNM, especially at PNM that the chapter CUT. (She'll never even be a member of the group, period.)