Cutting Legacies

[kddani]

the only thing i have to add to what honeychile said is that this particular sorority may not have a policy that allows them to contact the mother/whoever. I don't really know KDs policy as to this very well b/c here in a northern, urban school we don't get many legacies in rush, but i'm positive that we don't have to call anyone but the Collegiate Province President to explalin and/or get permission.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by honeychile
I haven't been at Bid Matching in a couple years, but legacies invited back to Pref were to appear in alphabetical order at the top of our bid sheets - again, no matter how many.

honeychile

What if there are more legacies than quota??? Does that mean the end of the alphabet isn't on the first list?

[honeychile]

Originally posted by kddani
the only thing i have to add to what honeychile said is that this particular sorority may not have a policy that allows them to contact the mother/whoever. I don't really know KDs policy as to this very well b/c here in a northern, urban school we don't get many legacies in rush, but i'm positive that we don't have to call anyone but the Collegiate Province President to explalin and/or get permission.

To clarify, we called our Province President, who then calls EO. The personal phone call is made by either the Province President or EO, depending on the situation (like, is it just before Pref, or is the mother an Executive Officer, or a 5-generation legacy - these would all get the EO call. And I've seen each of these happen!!) Oh, spare me the drama of a ditzy 5-generation legacy who's aunt is an Executive Officer any day of the week!!! I would not wish that on ANY chapter!!

DeltaBetaBaby, I'm not positive about your scenario. From what I was told, that would be the case, but I can't see that happening in the Deep South. Seriously, how could it be? Maybe legacies get an extra point towards ranking? I'll defer to someone who's done Bid Matching in the Deep South on this question!

honeychile

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by honeychile
DeltaBetaBaby, I'm not positive about your scenario. From what I was told, that would be the case, but I can't see that happening in the Deep South. Seriously, how could it be? Maybe legacies get an extra point towards ranking? I'll defer to someone who's done Bid Matching in the Deep South on this question!

honeychile

It does happen--not at my school, but it does. It is my understanding that on the bid list, the legacies themselves are ranked, just placed above other PNMs. So PNM Legacy Suzy might be #1, and PNM Legacy Maryanne might be #27. If quota is 30, they'd both still be on the bid list, but PNM Legacy Fifi might be ranked #33 and not get a bid. Of course, I guess it depends on the specific voting system each sorority uses.

I just wanted to use the name Fifi... hehe

[aephi alum]

Nothing here looks "unfair" to me... if she didn't fit with that chapter, she didn't fit. I hope she found a home.

We have a similar legacy policy - any legacy invited to pref goes automatically on the first bid list. If there are more legacies than quota, the legacies are ranked relative to each other, so they're all on either the first list or the top of the second list. Legacies are followed by national recs (anyone for whom a national officer has written a recommendation), then by other PNMs.

We cannot release a legacy going into second round, but we can release her at any other point. If a legacy is released, there has to be a d@mn good reason! I don't think we're required to make a courtesy call to her mother (or whoever) but I know my chapter would do so.

It's a shame, though, when you have to place great women on the second bid list, and potentially lose them to another sorority or see them not match at all, simply because quota was 20 and 25 legacies came to pref.

[honeychile]

I just re-read my post, and realized that I wasn't very clear about the part that our Fifi-lover quoted! I surely see where there could be more legacies than quota, but what a nightmare that would be! I was trying to defer to someone who would know how to handle that situation, and it looks as though breathesgelatin answered! Thank you!

honeychile

[James]

Honeychile, I hope you had a form letter lol.

Originally posted by honeychile
I was Rec Chair, and I know that I also had to write a thank you and a "yes, she pledged" or "I'm sorry to inform you" letter to EVERYONE who took the time to send in a rec.

I haven't been at Bid Matching in a couple years, but legacies invited back to Pref were to appear in alphabetical order at the top of our bid sheets - again, no matter how many.


honeychile

[honeychile]

Originally posted by James
Honeychile, I hope you had a form letter lol.

LOL indeed! We actually had cards printed up, and then the Rec Chair just had to add a few personal words of her own. Except, of course, those 5-generation EO officer's daughter's recs - they got the kid glove treatment!

Has anyone else ever been Rec Chairman?

honeychile

[JerzeeBoy26]

in fraternities, at least in my chapter, we usually give legacies a legit shot. turning one away is difficult but it depends on circumstances. our general rule is, unless a kid really sucks, if he is a chapter legacy and his dad/grandfather/brother are still connected to the chapter, he is pretty much in. if he is a beta legacy, but not a chapter legacy, we have a little more leeway to decide if we really want him. but again, those kids pretty much have "bids to lose". maybe its just respect for tradition or whatever

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by JerzeeBoy26
in fraternities, at least in my chapter, we usually give legacies a legit shot. turning one away is difficult but it depends on circumstances. our general rule is, unless a kid really sucks, if he is a chapter legacy and his dad/grandfather/brother are still connected to the chapter, he is pretty much in. if he is a beta legacy, but not a chapter legacy, we have a little more leeway to decide if we really want him. but again, those kids pretty much have "bids to lose". maybe its just respect for tradition or whatever

Yes, but you don't have a quota!

[Munchkin03]

My one and only legacy experience goes like how you all are saying--if she was invited to Pref, she automatically is on the first bid list. If you don't want her to be your sister, don't invite her to Pref. Simple as that. WE DO NOT INVITE WOMEN TO PREF THAT WE DO NOT PLAN ON GIVING A BID TO. Our legacy didn't want to be in a house at all, a we sent a nice letter to her grandmother.

This year, we had a triple-threat legacy...to the other sorority. She came to us!

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Okay. Two thoughts:

1) Does it not seem to anyone else like Southern Belle has it out for whichever sorority the story is about? Their girls stink, the mother isn't loyal, the current collegiate members cut the legacy out of sheer meanness, etc., etc., etc.

2) NO ONE CONSIDERED THE FACT THAT THE LEGACY MAY NOT WANT TO BE THERE. And aside from that -- who knows what the collegiate chapter knows the the mother, grandmother, etc., don't? We had a girl come through who had drug problems -- what were we supposed to do? Call her mom and be like, "Hey, your daughter's cool, but the whole coke thing isn't really gonna work for us....." You get the picture.

Anyway, we ALL know how awfully agonizing selections can be. In my sorority I know we CAREFULLY go over each potential member, considering all aspects of her personality, potential as a sister, academic record, etc. I'm confidant that this sorority -- esp. if they're one of the "Big 4", and I'm assuming Panhelenic -- works the same way.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Our latest Crescent actually had a big article on just this topic. Our policy is to leave it up to the PNM to contact her family if she is not invited back to a round of parties "to protect the woman's privacy". It even says it o the bottom of the legacy form members fill out.

In answer to the other question just asked, I'm the only person in my family (male or female) who is Greek.

[sherbertlemons]

Originally posted by sorority belle

I know a freshman who was cut from a sorority where she was a double legacy (Mother, Grandmother & Aunt all were this--all maternal btw) and had 5 recs written for her (mother's and aunt's sorority sisters and alumni groups were DETERMINED for this girl to get into this sorority). Worse yet, the girl's mother was a member of the same CHAPTER (went to the same college) that cut her!

The school this girl rushed at did rush through 4 rounds--Intro night, Philanthropy, Song & Skit, & Pref Night. The girl kept "preffing" her mother/grandmother/aunt's sorority first [because she REALLY liked it, she said!] and was invited back to rounds 1, 2, and 3. She did not get an invite to Pref Night.

I know that we try not to cut legacies if possible, but that if we invite a legacy back to pref night, we have to offer them a bid. Obviously the girl wasn't invited back to Pref Night and didn't get a bid from them.

However what was so disheartening about the whole story is that the girl told her mother that she felt like she had been treated unfairly at that sorority in the first place. She really liked the girls she knew there and had a lot of friends that ended up going there, however she ended up only being able to go to about 5 minutes of round 2 (it lasted 35 minutes) because she had class until late in the day and rush started earlier. Apparently the Panhel at her school "arranged" her schedule (along with others in her predicament) but she still felt like her mother's sorority members "didn't want her there" even though she liked them.

I guess this story just pi$$es me off because it is a classic example of turning an entire family against the Greek system. The girl's mother, who was a big contributer to her sorority's nationals, has since almost entirely quit donating. Same thing for the girl's aunt. Their alumni chapters, which organized recs for the girl, are wondering what course of action to take (i.e. letter to Nationals? etc).

Just an illustration of why Kappa does not send letters to alumnae about their cut legacies. I realize that in this senario, it sounds like she told her family herself, but supose for a second her family got a call about it, and she had planned to keep it secret.
What may not have been said in this situation:
-The girl really didn't care about this house. She kept on putting them first, or saying she put them first, but really was hoping she wouldn't get them. She's happy at her new house, but her family is driving her crazy with their strong reaction.
- The girl really, really wanted this house. She was hurt, but by getting a chance to lick her wounds, she'd calm down and grow to love her new house. She really would just have preferred her relatives forget about it. However, now she's sure the group that cut her knows about the fit her family is throwing. She worries that they think she put her family up to it. She's ashamed to face any girls from that house, and really hates it, because her math class is full of them.
I know if my family were going to throw a fit like that, I'd keep quiet about being cut for my own sake. Therefore, I support and entirely agree with privacy for the legacy going through recruitment being considered over courtesy for the member.

I also thought that it might potentially be a scenario where she cut them and lied about it. She knew her family would have a cow that she cut them, so she decided to get them off her back and let them think she was cut. Hence, no cut= no legacy letter.

I personally think the moral of this story is that families should lay off te pressure to go to one house. It really is her decision; she has to be able to live with both the group she chooses and the house that supposedly cut her.

[imsohappythatiama]

Sherbertlemons, you are right on. This is exactly why it is Kappa's policy to keep the outcome of any PNM's Recruitment process private.

When I was a collegiate, my chapter released a PNM who was a 5-time Kappa legacy--Grandmother, Mother, 2 Aunts, and a Sister--one of whom was a past National President, and 2 of whom had been both Regional and Province officers. Long story short, it didn't work out for this girl, and my chapter released her in the round before Preference Night.

We did not call her family. We did, however, call our Province and Regional officers to let them know what had happened, as we were certain there would be backlash.

Then we waited.

The young woman, who probably had a *very* hard phone call to make on the day of Bid Day, called her family and told them that she was proud to be a new member of Delta Gamma. Her family (though still a little sore), congratulated her and sent her a big bunch of cream roses.

Now they give as much money to DG as they give to KKG.

This family handled it right, and I continue to be impressed by them years later.

That's not to say that we still didn't hear about it from HQ....but in the end it all worked out.

Something to keep in mind, ladies.....for when we have daughters ourselves!