Rec/Rif confusion...please help!

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

If 5 letters was seen as being "needy"- then couldn't that possibly be a strike against someone before they even start recruitment?

My friend's exact word about sending five recs was "obsessive." You never want to appear "obsessed" with a sorority, because no one wants a creepy new member (see the stalker PNMs thread).

[TSteven]

For sake of discussion, lets say Polly PNM is a perfect fit for ABC but she doesn't know it yet. (That is what rush is all about.) Polly follows the suggestions provided by the campus Panhellenic and gets two letters or recommendation - on her own - for ABC from alumnae in her area. She does this for the other sororities as well. Yet, unbeknownst to her, an ABC alumnus in her home town knows Polly and can see that she would be a wonderful member. So she writes a letter. The sweet and kind ABC lady at Polly's place of worship also feels Polly would be a delightful ABC and sends a letter. The head of the animal shelter where Polly volunteers is an ABC and she too writes a letter in hopes that one day, she will be able to call Polly "sister".

As such five ABC alumnae think highly of Polly and have sent a letter on her behalf. Three of which were unsolicited by Polly. Would the chapter know that three of the letters were unsolicited?

If not, and as some suggest, it seems like it would be possible that ABC might release Polly - someone who in theory would have been a perfect fit - simply because they felt Polly was obsessed with them. Yet ironically, it is ABCs that are obsessed with Polly.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TSteven

For sake of discussion, lets say Polly PNM is a perfect fit for ABC but she doesn't know it yet. (That is what rush is all about.) Polly follows the suggestions provided by the campus Panhellenic and gets two letters or recommendation - on her own - for ABC from alumnae in her area. She does this for the other sororities as well. Yet, unbeknownst to her, an ABC alumnus in her home town knows Polly and can see that she would be a wonderful member. So she writes a letter. The sweet and kind ABC lady at Polly's place of worship also feels Polly would be a delightful ABC and sends a letter. The head of the animal shelter where Polly volunteers is an ABC and she too writes a letter in hopes that one day, she will be able to call Polly "sister".

As such five ABC alumnae think highly of Polly and have sent a letter on her behalf. Three of which were unsolicited by Polly. Would the chapter know that three of the letters were unsolicited?

If not, and as some suggest, it seems like it would be possible that ABC might release Polly - someone who in theory would have been a perfect fit - simply because they felt Polly was obsessed with them. Yet ironically, it is ABCs that are obsessed with Polly.

In that highly unlikely situation...no, the ABCs would not know which are solicited, unless the rec writer spesified. However, the two that were solicited are likely to be close, as they'll probably be made from the same resume...where the unsolicited ones would be unique because they were written without her resume, and for a spesific reason. Could she be released for it? It's very possible...

[MSKKG]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Could she be released for it? It's very possible...

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard even though I realize at some colleges that's the way it is. We all (NPC) complain that there's not enough time to really get to know the PNMs or that the way we recruit is so fake. Then, trusted people, our sisters, let us know about a PNM and our chapters would be willing to cut her for that?!? If a PNM is very quiet during recruitment, sometimes she is perceived as being aloof, disinterested, snooty, etc. If her rec(s) let you know that, you would react to her a little differently. You wouldn't get on your high horse as easily, and you would probably give her a second chance. If a PNM bowls you over, but her rec(s) all say to be careful, don't you think you'd like to have that clue instead of being swayed by a short conversation?

Although IMO requiring 5 recs is a little excessive, if that's what Greek Life at a particular college recommends, then you better believe I'd be doing my best to procure 5 recs!

[NutBrnHair]

You know what I think it usually comes down to? If the active chapter LIKES the PNM who has a lot of alumnae support -- it's great. If they DON'T like her -- the extra letters, food, posters, etc. will be to the girl's detriment.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

You know what I think it usually comes down to? If the active chapter LIKES the PNM who has a lot of alumnae support -- it's great. If they DON'T like her -- the extra letters, food, posters, etc. will be to the girl's detriment.

BINGO!

Also, a note about TSteven's comment about Polly PNM having three unsolicited recs... most NPC orgs' rec forms require information that a random person would not have about Polly (like her GPA, class rank, parents' Greek affiliations, NHS membership, or other stuff that you don't just randomly share with every person you know). I would see it as unlikely that a woman would be able to fill out the entire form without consulting the PNM for information.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

You know what I think it usually comes down to? If the active chapter LIKES the PNM who has a lot of alumnae support -- it's great. If they DON'T like her -- the extra letters, food, posters, etc. will be to the girl's detriment.

That sounds about right.

Its just like dating...

If you really, really like a guy and he showers you with attention, you'll be thrilled. If you're neutral and/or dislike a guy and he showers you with attention, you'll find it annoying.

[UGAalum94]

Would the average member even know about the recs the girl had in terms of number, etc?

I really do have rush amnesia in a lot of ways, but I don't remember even being aware of the recs/rifs that a pnm I rushed had. I might just be me or this size rush that we had.

I'd be very wary of giving too much direction here. Current members of the chapters on her campus are really the only folks who are going to know the answer to the how-many-recs-is-the-right-number question, as far as I know.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Would the average member even know about the recs the girl had in terms of number, etc?

I really do have rush amnesia in a lot of ways, but I don't remember even being aware of the recs/rifs that a pnm I rushed had. I might just be me or this size rush that we had.

I'd be very wary of giving too much direction here. Current members of the chapters on her campus are really the only folks who are going to know the answer to the how-many-recs-is-the-right-number question, as far as I know.

Generally my experience has been that cuts based on recs (what they said, lack of them, etc.) were not something that was discussed with the membership as a whole. Suzy Q Rusher might really like Polly PNM, but if Polly doesn't have any recs Suzy Q isn't going to be able to keep her from getting cut if they chapter requires a rec to get through the round (that is, at a big SEC school like Arkansas). I'm betting it was the same way with your chapter, alphagamuga... because how on earth could every chapter member read every rec at a school like ours?

Again, to the OP: I know someone who graduated from a strong chapter at Arkansas only two years ago. She says five is way overboard. I highly doubt that it has changed a lot since 2005. I don't believe any of us have asked yet, but was the person who told you that each chapter required five recs a student at Arkansas?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Generally my experience has been that cuts based on recs (what they said, lack of them, etc.) were not something that was discussed with the membership as a whole. Suzy Q Rusher might really like Polly PNM, but if Polly doesn't have any recs Suzy Q isn't going to be able to keep her from getting cut if they chapter requires a rec to get through the round (that is, at a big SEC school like Arkansas). I'm betting it was the same way with your chapter, alphagamuga... because how on earth could every chapter member read every rec at a school like ours?

That's what I was thinking, so I guess my rather limited point was that the people meeting you might not even know how many recs you had.

I have no idea how many you should have even at UGA other than to say you ought to have at least one to each chapter.

It's really hard even to speculate without tipping your hand about membership selection.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

At Illinois, we considered it overboard when we got letters of introduction written by women who were not Phi Mu's, and yes, we did get them. I know every other chapter got them as well, but you are giving us zero information that is not on her registration form, and we don't know you from Adam.

The one exception to this was a letter we once got from a high-ranking national officer of a group that was not on our campus. Obviously, we respected it because we had some sort of basis for knowing who she was (and yes, we did check her status).

[irishpipes]

I advise at Arkansas and I can assure the OP that 5 recs is over the top. Many PNMs will have at least 2 for each sorority, however. I believe the prevailing reasoning is that if the rec is not from an alumna of the chapter at UA, the PNM may try to procure a second rec to make sure adequate weight is given. (And no, I am not making a judgment on the proper weight to be given to recs from alumnae of different chapters, I am just saying that this is an Arkansas thing that some PNMs feel is necessary.)

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

The rumor was that some chapters had slideshows of the PNM that were reviewed during recruitment. My chapter didn't at least when I was there.

Your chapter didn't??? A slideshow/power point is the norm for most SEC schools...and others in the South...and probably elsewhere. Daughter's chapter made posters of girls from various towns around the state and put them up in hallways, bathrooms etc so members would get familiar with PNMs.

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Along the lines of looking at pictures of PNMs, somewhat interesting highjack: I was talking to a male former student, and he said his Greek group will pull up Facebook pages to see what the guys look like and how they present themselves. It might be wise to think of myspace and facebook entries as recruitment posters of your PNM. They might be used that way.

This is standard operating procedure for most groups now. So beware, PNMs. Clean up your Facebook pages! (And the same for sorority members)

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

Your chapter didn't??? A slideshow/power point is the norm for most SEC schools...and others in the South...and probably elsewhere. Daughter's chapter made posters of girls from various towns around the state and put them up in hallways, bathrooms etc so members would get familiar with PNMs.

Here's the difference: Pretty much every chapter has a power point or slide show, which is used (like the posters) to help girls remember who is who. What (I think) alphagamuga is referencing is the old rumor that chapters would review the photos of every PNM and make cuts based on them prior to recruitment. That's still a rumor.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

What (I think) alphagamuga is referencing is the old rumor that chapters would review the photos of every PNM and make cuts based on them prior to recruitment.

A friend of mine told me flat out that her chapter does this (She goes to an SEC school, but I will not name the sorority). She said they would cut at least 100 out of 800 before they even walked through the door. When I said that my chapter doesn't even have pictures of PNMs for use during MS, she looked at me like I had six heads.