Someone to tell your chapter about before recruitment

[aggieAXO]

James,

according to Maggie's statement -she said "she knew" that this girl did this, not I heard that she did this or I think she did this-she said she knew. I suggest you read her statement more carefully before replying next time-she did not say she "heard this". Unfortunately, it does not sound like this girl was arrested and given a trial which should have been done-but rather received "a slap on the wrist" by the police-also in her statement.
There was no trail, no jury. I f you HAD kicked a cocker spaniel then you would be arrested and put on trail and if you had done this believe me I would be the star witness to help prosecute your a$$. Maggie is asking for our opionion and we gave it to her. If you don't like it that is your rt. Maybe you should come and spend some time at my clinic to see the abused animals. I guarantee that it is much worse than keying a guys car or pissing in the bed. We have a cat killer currently in Austin-they skin the cats and dismember them (oh by the way James people don't hold them down usually -they either kill them and then skin them or render them unconscious with blunt trauma or chemical restraint).

[AXiD4Life]

I completely agree with both ZTAngel and 33girl. The bottom line with what everyone is saying is that, maggieaxid, your sisters are going to trust your reasons for not wanting this girl, for reputation AND safety reasons. Go with your instincts, maggie. Your sisters will thank you for it. If you don't think she should be a part of your chapter, no matter what the reason, then give her a no-rec. Simple as that. Good luck and Xi Love.

[shultzz]

Originally posted by justamom
I have always heard that abuse of an animal by a child is one of THE most important signals of serious mental illness.

I used to burn ants with a magnifying glass but that was a scientific experiment.

[deltajas]

Ok,
Let me just make a few more comments in relation to what people are saying and then I am done with this topic. First let me say my sensitivity to this issue I think is with the fact that I be graduating with my BS RN soon, and then Hopefully starting medical school. So this is where I draw my opinions are experience.
First of all Im sorry for people who disagree, but mental illness is an illness, JUST LIKE CANCER OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ABNORMALITY, INSTEAD OF BEING AN ABNORMALITY in let's say the breast, one may have one in the brain. Of course besides the typical front lobal abnormalities, lack of serotonin or what have you, which people Im sure if they had their way would not be born with but they have no choice, there is the child abuse, physical and mental that can lead to such behaviors. Let us say the girl in question here suffers from a chemical imbalance, or let's say she was abused, let's say she has had complications in her mind and life that none of, well a fraction of you may never even encounter.
Now let's say she terribly did this to this animal, which I love LOVE animals too, I too once desired to be a vet before deciding on family medicine.
She obviously is disturbed, Im not disputing with anyone there. But I think a certain amount of compassion and devils advocate roles should be looked at from some.
If she has done these things she needs help, I find it really quite offensive that people are so freely thrashing someone with such problems. Too sit here and say how crazy, or psychotic she is, and how she could never and should never be integrated into society, well that reminds me of a time when lobotomies were routine and people in psych wards were chained up. Terrible terrible times.
I think you are right, she needs help, but I think a more appropriate way to handle this type of issue in a way that will help all parties concerned is maybe sit down with your advisor, or the greek advisor one on one, and talk to her/him about this issue and how you feel this girl would be a threat, maybe you could suggest treatment if none has been sought and it can be communicated that way. but I think to act like someone's mental illness is like running around to let everyone know who had a one night stand last night is very very wrong. I just think the way it can be handled could be a lot more professional.
Ok Im not going to argue on this anymore, bc I dont see it as an arguement. I know what I know is true, and I can only hope the best for your chapter, and hopefully for this handicapped girl.

[carnation]

Deltajas,

These parents are in profoundly deep denial. I guarantee that if maggie were to go to them and suggest that their precious darling might need treatment, they'll be screaming, "We'll sue you for suggesting such a thing!" I would stake my life on it. If they'd gotten her into treatment, she wouldn't have done the more recent things that she did.

This is exactly why in hundreds of school districts around the country, teachers aren't even allowed to hint to a parent that his/her child might benefit from Ritalin, much less anything more serious.

I want you to note that the women who are saying that they would go for the no-rec have been alums for some time. We aren't catty students who love to cut. We've been around for awhile and seen the havoc that one person can wreak on a chapter and its members and I think that none of us would be willing to sacrifice our chapters' reps so that a girl with a bad rep can have a second chance. Or in this case, twentieth chance.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by deltajas
Ok,
Let me just make a few more comments in relation to what people are saying and then I am done with this topic. First let me say my sensitivity to this issue I think is with the fact that I be graduating with my BS RN soon, and then Hopefully starting medical school. So this is where I draw my opinions are experience.
First of all Im sorry for people who disagree, but mental illness is an illness, JUST LIKE CANCER OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ABNORMALITY, INSTEAD OF BEING AN ABNORMALITY in let's say the breast, one may have one in the brain. Of course besides the typical front lobal abnormalities, lack of serotonin or what have you, which people Im sure if they had their way would not be born with but they have no choice, there is the child abuse, physical and mental that can lead to such behaviors. Let us say the girl in question here suffers from a chemical imbalance, or let's say she was abused, let's say she has had complications in her mind and life that none of, well a fraction of you may never even encounter.
Now let's say she terribly did this to this animal, which I love LOVE animals too, I too once desired to be a vet before deciding on family medicine.
She obviously is disturbed, Im not disputing with anyone there. But I think a certain amount of compassion and devils advocate roles should be looked at from some.
If she has done these things she needs help, I find it really quite offensive that people are so freely thrashing someone with such problems. Too sit here and say how crazy, or psychotic she is, and how she could never and should never be integrated into society, well that reminds me of a time when lobotomies were routine and people in psych wards were chained up. Terrible terrible times.
I think you are right, she needs help, but I think a more appropriate way to handle this type of issue in a way that will help all parties concerned is maybe sit down with your advisor, or the greek advisor one on one, and talk to her/him about this issue and how you feel this girl would be a threat, maybe you could suggest treatment if none has been sought and it can be communicated that way. but I think to act like someone's mental illness is like running around to let everyone know who had a one night stand last night is very very wrong. I just think the way it can be handled could be a lot more professional.
Ok Im not going to argue on this anymore, bc I dont see it as an arguement. I know what I know is true, and I can only hope the best for your chapter, and hopefully for this handicapped girl.

I know you are not going to argue any more or debate, but I just had to say that I again disagree with you, mental illness is not like cancer. Abusing animals is not a sign of cancer and cancer patients genarally do not abuse animals or kill humans.. I am not saying all mentally ill people do these kind of things, as I said in my previous post I have delt with mental illness all my life with my dad and other family members and luckily they have never hurt anyone or anything physically I should say, emotionally is a different story. I also know from experience that mentally ill people sometimes chose not to take their medication which does not help them and again can put society at risk. If cancer patients don't take their medication they will likely die. To bad no one caught on to how psychotic Jeffrey Dahmer was when he was younger could have saved many lives.

[KillarneyRose]

If someone with "mental illness" skins a cat, stabs a woman or beats a man to death, is the cat, the woman or the man any less dead than if the killer was "normal"?

Is the physical pain during the commission of these acts any less because the person has a "mental illness"?

Is the terror that the cat, woman and man feel while they're being tortured any less because the person responsible has a "mental illness"?

Do the owners of the cat and the loved ones of the man and woman hurt or grieve any less because the person that did these things has a "mental illness"?

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not a cool liberal chick, but my compassion lies with the victims. I don't want to hear how Janey was abused as a child or is bi-polar and therefore she should be granted free reign to terrorize society at will.

PS I'd personally send that no-rec as fast as humanly possible so as not to take the chance of exposing my sisters to that creature.

[aggieAXO]

I completely agree with you Tracy

[Optimist Prime]

I share James' curiosity into how she could be physichally capable of killing the cat. No pun intended.

[aephi alum]

Are you kidding?? Overnight the no-rec!!

An 8th grader is around 13 years old. Even if 4 years have passed, unless she is in therapy, she most likely hasn't changed. And if her parents truly believe she can do no wrong, chances are she *hasn't* been in therapy. People can change, but from what I've read here, that probably isn't the case.

And James, it doesn't take a lot of physical strength to hold down a small cat, particularly if it's been declawed - sad as I am to say it.

[justamom]

Schultzz-You burned ants? Weren't you also the one who started the thread about anal sex?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
If someone with "mental illness" skins a cat, stabs a woman or beats a man to death, is the cat, the woman or the man any less dead than if the killer was "normal"?

Is the physical pain during the commission of these acts any less because the person has a "mental illness"?

Is the terror that the cat, woman and man feel while they're being tortured any less because the person responsible has a "mental illness"?

Do the owners of the cat and the loved ones of the man and woman hurt or grieve any less because the person that did these things has a "mental illness"?

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not a cool liberal chick, but my compassion lies with the victims. I don't want to hear how Janey was abused as a child or is bi-polar and therefore she should be granted free reign to terrorize society at will.

PS I'd personally send that no-rec as fast as humanly possible so as not to take the chance of exposing my sisters to that creature.

Preach on, sister! I agree 110%, Tracy, and I'd probably drive myself to the chapter and hand over the no-rec personally, just to make sure that the girls received it!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I have compassion for people with mental illness also, but skinning a cat is beyond mental illness. It's criminal. That's how people like Jeffrey Dahmer and other serial killers get started. I hope that that girl gets the help that she obviously desperately needs, otherwise her problems will become everyone else's problems.

[maggieaxid]

Well this weekend I did a little research around town about her. Apparently, she has been in counseling for awhile and is medicated for ADD. Now, I don't think ADD really has anything to do with skinning a cat and giving it back to its owner, but i don't know all that much about mental illnesses.

However, I also found out a few other instances...like more fights that still go on (one happened outside the 7-eleven in our neighborhood about two weeks ago and the cops were called) and also apparently when she was driving one day, someone cut her off so she hit their bumper...um, road rage anyone? and has to pay damages.

Like, I know if i write a no-rec that will keep her from getting into AZD but I am also worried about the other chapters and elon in general. I just can't believe her parents would let her go so far away. They think she can do no wrong though.

[carnation]

Hey, just the kind of person we need to make the Greek system look good! Seriously, if I had it to do over again I would've notified all the sororities on campus about that first girl I told you about. She's as violent on campus as she was at camp and I should've known that nothing would change.