Discrepancies in the way we view rush

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
In many ways, this is why I'm glad we don't do rush with resumes. I think there are a lot of girls who would be "mediocre" to "poor" in other schools that are going through rush...and the sorority is just the outlet they need. It gives them a chance to take on as much responsibility as they want, learn leadership, and express themselves. They just may not be able to act in that capacity in high school or in other campus clubs.

I think in a lot of ways, these girls that some call "mediocre" are EXACTLY THE GIRLS WE SHOULD BE RECRUITING. While it is NICE to have a house of beautiful 4.0 Rhoades Scholars who rescue kittens on the weekends, is it not also the purpose of the sorority to instill the values of scholarship, compassion, learning, etc?

I don't think I came into Tau Delta a polished stone, but I have been shaped, formed, molded into a person that is proud to be a Delta...and I'm proud that my acomplishments only make Her look better....and I don't think I'd be as disciplined as I am now.

Stands up and applauds....

[STL Kappa]

Here's what I'm wondering... a lot of schools could not recruit women by getting to know all of them personally, spending time with the PNMs, etc. Even if they wanted to, the large number of women going through recruitment would make it an impossibility. I guess that may be why resumes and recommendations are used... because you somehow have to find out about the PNMs in order to make decisions, and there just isn't enough time in the world (much less rush parties!) to sit face-to-face and get to know the girls. Even if schools were to wait until spring to rush, it's still not realistic to think that they would have the opportunity to get to know everyone.

So I'm interested in knowing what alternatives to resumes and recs could be used in a situation where recruitment is so big. Obviously when resumes are used, it can leave a lot of great girls out in the cold. But how else could it be done efficiently? Perhaps part of the reason recruitment at large schools (I hestitate to say "Southern" schools because I know it's not limited to the South!) is so cut-throat is because no one has been able to find a better way. (I'm not trying to be argumentative here... I'd really like to know what everyone thinks!) One more question... if resumes are not used, does the PNM include her GPA when she signs up for recruitment?

PhoenizAzul... awesome point about how the "mediocre" girls (I don't like that word EVERYONE IS AMAZING!) are the ones that should be recruited. Only thing I can think of is that some chapters think it's better to have girls that already possess the vaules and qualities they are looking for rather than try to instill them in the women.

In case you guys haven't noticed, I've been here an awful lot tonight. I have a comp paper and I'm avoiding it.

[alphaalpha]

At my school we had an application (which included GPA and resume type info.) and people could submit recs if they wanted, i don't think most people do.

I am only saying that when sororities do research on PNM's and talk to people who "know" her. I would not want to go through this type of system. I am fine with letters of rec and apps cause i did a lot in high school. However, i was not popular by any means and if someone did Research on me i think that they would have an oppionion of me that is not based on reality. I do support applications and recs (even non-greek recs like from former teachers or something) to make some basis, just not talking to people about me and basing cuts based on who "knows" me.

Granted my schools new member classes was around 30 to 40 women and so not the same as places like LSU, but then i do not think that i could go to a school like that.

[STL Kappa]

It's interesting... because I didn't even know I was going through a system where alums and members would be getting to "know" me. I didn't even realize that happened until AFTER I went through recruitment. Now I'm on the other side as a member instead of a PNM... and I see what happens. I'm sure the thought of it sounds really ominous, but then again, you don't always know that it's happening...

[33girl]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
I do support applications and recs (even non-greek recs like from former teachers or something) to make some basis, just not talking to people about me and basing cuts based on who "knows" me.

Exactly.

[wanderersarah]

Amen, PhoenixAzul.

[valkyrie]

Am I the only one who finds the concept of people talking to others to get the scoop on rushees kind of creepy? Imagine if you were an 18 year old going away to college and some guy who wanted to date you was doing the same thing. We might call that stalking, LOL.

[Little E]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
I am only saying that when sororities do research on PNM's and talk to people who "know" her. I would not want to go through this type of system. I am fine with letters of rec and apps cause i did a lot in high school. However, i was not popular by any means and if someone did Research on me i think that they would have an oppionion of me that is not based on reality. I do support applications and recs (even non-greek recs like from former teachers or something) to make some basis, just not talking to people about me and basing cuts based on who "knows" me.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. This is were I am coming from. I strongly support GPA, we need academic credibility; I support a resume- though I would prefer it if it had service activities, not popularity contests (ie homecoming). I just don't believe that being homecoming queen says anything about who you are inside. You could be the next Mother Teresa or you could be a complete bitch who just controls people. I'm not trying to discriminate against women who were adored in HS, I just want everyone to have the chance to change, evolve and have a wonderful support system with fabulous sisters.

To be honest, if I had found out my chapter 'researched' me, I would not have joined. That is too big brother(sister?) creepy for me.

alphaalpha- you totally have me right!!

[pinkyphimu]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Am I the only one who finds the concept of people talking to others to get the scoop on rushees kind of creepy? Imagine if you were an 18 year old going away to college and some guy who wanted to date you was doing the same thing. We might call that stalking, LOL.

one of the advisors that worked with my chapter was from a southern school. it was not an sec school, and from what i have read about this school on gc, it does not seem like a completely cut-throat system. she told us that when she was in high school, her teachers, etc. would say things like, "you don't want to smoke/ drink/ sleep around (insert *bad* thing here) or else you won't get in to a good sorority in college." i am not sure if this is true for many others, but this is what happened to her. i think she was in high school in the early to mid 80s.

now i think that is creepy.

[bekibug]

But again, consider:
Many hundreds of girls are going through. You don't necessarily get to know all of them before you have to start cutting. Plus, you get an idea of which girls you may think are best suited for your chapter if you know a little bit about them.

Example:
Susie Q. may have been the biggest hobag in her school. She may very well change over the summer before college, but you don't want people in other chapters that knew her then thinking you have a pledge class full of skanks. Why? Because they will "let it slip" to other PNM's if they know you keep her during the week and definitely the next year.

It's happened here; a girl in XYZ "let it slip" that I definitely didn't want to keep ABC after first round because they were all cokehead sluts (not in that exact phrasing, of course, but definitely let it be known they were "fast" and had a drug problem). It's sort of a watching-your-back kind of thing.

[STL Kappa]

Originally posted by Little E
I strongly support GPA, we need academic credibility; I support a resume- though I would prefer it if it had service activities, not popularity contests (ie homecoming). I just don't believe that being homecoming queen says anything about who you are inside.

If this were the case, a resume that included only service activities, where do you draw the line? For example, if a girl was a cheerleader all through high school and the squad did service activities together... does she include just the service and leave off the sport?

What about girls who were active and kept good grades, but don't have any experience with volunteering and service... would this be a disadvantage to them?

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by bekibug
But again, consider:
Many hundreds of girls are going through. You don't necessarily get to know all of them before you have to start cutting. Plus, you get an idea of which girls you may think are best suited for your chapter if you know a little bit about them.

Example:
Susie Q. may have been the biggest hobag in her school. She may very well change over the summer before college, but you don't want people in other chapters that knew her then thinking you have a pledge class full of skanks. Why? Because they will "let it slip" to other PNM's if they know you keep her during the week and definitely the next year.

It's happened here; a girl in XYZ "let it slip" that I definitely didn't want to keep ABC after first round because they were all cokehead sluts (not in that exact phrasing, of course, but definitely let it be known they were "fast" and had a drug problem). It's sort of a watching-your-back kind of thing.

See, this is exactly what I think is wrong with sororities today. First of all, I wouldn't give a rat's ass if people think there's a pledge class full of "skanks" because WTF does that mean anyway (I'm not about judging on stuff like that)? Also, if someone approached me and said that the girls in XYZ were a bunch of "cokehead sluts" I'd be more likely to think she was an obnoxious gossip than I'd be to pay any attention to that sort of thing. Don't we tell rushees to ignore the "tent talk" and think for themselves?

So we all agree that rush is hectic and there's not time to get to know the girls as well as we should be getting to know them. Then why not make rush longer? Make the parties a couple hours instead of 20 minutes or whatever they are, and spread rush over a few weeks. Wouldn't that work?

ETA: I don't really think we'd make that change even if it's feasible because honestly, I think most of us like it the way it is even if it's shallow.

[honeychile]

I suppose I've been looking at the Recruitment threads in a different way. If I knew a friend traveling to say, Ireland, I would tell her the must-sees, and about Shannon's duty-free airport. If she were going to Russia, I would suggest taking a cruise instead of staying at a hotel, and to take warm clothing. If she were going to Hawaii, I would tell her to ask OTW for the best suggestions.

In other words, different schools have different rush systems, and the PNM should be guided to the one best for her school. Wearing Lily Pulitzer at say, Susqehanna University, doesn't carry the weight that it would at LSU. Having a few dozen recs means little to some schools, and everything to others. Being a legacy in some schools means a mother, grandmother, or sister from that chapter, while at others, having a cousin at Obscure University is considered somewhat of a legacy.

I'd like to think that the threads that have been posted haven't been a "our rush is better than your rush", so much as "this is what to expect at your school". And if it isn't, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing to keep in mind.

[alphaalpha]

Originally posted by Little E
\.

To be honest, if I had found out my chapter 'researched' me, I would not have joined. That is too big brother(sister?) creepy for me.

alphaalpha- you totally have me right!!

GLad that we understand each other. Maybe cause we both had similar experiences in high school that college was all about being who we are and not what others think we are.

I do think that the research is kinda of weird and if i had gone through a rush and did not know that was done i would be super creaped out. Even if it was only good stuff that was told i would still wonder who talked to whom about me and what wrong info was given.

I do agree that each rush is different, but i would ask: How many people go through rush as LSU or Georgia and know that research has been done on them.

Also, ( I know this is long, sorry) there is a difference between someone actually being a scancy hoe and someone making up stories about them that do not go away. As an example, these 2 girls told the principle of my high school when i was in 9th grade that i stole money from a friend of theirs. well i did not and there was no proff. I had to be questioned by the police and everything. Well as with any small school everyone know about it and for years I was refered to as the girl who stole money from this other girl. Well would i want to go away to college and have a sorority hear this story, that again is IN NO WAY TRUE, and cut me because they heard that i stole and felt that my reputation was in question? No. I know this is a small example, but i have had many people make up stories about me, and like 95% of the stories were not close to the truth. I went to college to get away from that. I would never want to go through rush and have these stories catch up with me.

[Little E]

Originally posted by bekibug
Example:
Susie Q. may have been the biggest hobag in her school. She may very well change over the summer before college, but you don't want people in other chapters that knew her then thinking you have a pledge class full of skanks. Why? Because they will "let it slip" to other PNM's if they know you keep her during the week and definitely the next year.

So we are all to be held to the mistakes we made in the past? Perhaps that Susie had been abused as a child and these actions were sympotms of a larger issue, if she is a nice girl, shouldn't she be given a chance at friendship.

Sororities were, in my estimation, not created by women who demanded 18 years of previous perfection for entrance. NPC founders were women who were ahead of their time in college. They wanted equal rights to men. They wanted to stand on their own two feet, make a difference, have respect and do some good in the process. If this is where we came from, how have we come to the point where who I lost my viriginity to in HS matters? What some 80 yr old woman who taught me piano thinks? This is a SORORITY, not the CIA. Sororities are supposed to be fun, not the KGB. Reality?