Mutual selection?

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

[COLOR="Magenta]I think OPhiAginger is making it out to seem like just because an HQ doesn't want PNAMs approaching them about AI, that a sorority accepts no one.
[/COLOR]

That's not my intention at all, and I apologize if I gave that impression.

I am raising this question because my GLO has recently started considering an AI program and I want to get a better understanding of what has worked (and not) for the groups that have a program like this. It seems like old GC threads may have provided an overly supportive viewpoint that didn't reflect reality, and more recent threads reflect an overly pessimistic attitude.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

[COLOR="Magenta]If Patti PNAM is dedicated to XYZ and would make a good sister, alumnae will take notice, without her having to approach HQ....These orgs do see women in the comminity that would make good members and extand the invite of membership to them.[/COLOR]

So, again, the answer is to sit and wait for what you want to drop into your lap...? The people I most admire in life are the ones who make things happen. IF my GLO does develop an AI route to membership, those are the kind of people I hope are interested because those are the kind who can add the most to our organization.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I would love it if my NPC group (since if I attempt to say ALL I'd have my arm bitten off) had something similar to NPHC alumni intake process. I do feel that there are people of value who may find an organization interesting. I don't think it's right to hold it against some people that they did not go through recruitment. To me that is a lame excuse.

Not everyone is cut out for that, no everyone has the opportunity. Some people couldn't afford it, some people didn't make the cut for pathetic reasons based on an 19 year old's opinion, some people had other activities that demanded far too much of their time, some people didn't have the grades, some people didn't see the value in it at the time but have seen the light and regret it, etc. Who am I to hold the past against them (with the exception of those "special" situations [ie. crazy people]).

Also, I think it would encourage alumna associations to play an even more active role in their groups.

NPHC manages to do it and does it very successfully. While I don't think every org. should be required to, I think it has the potential to really change the scope of an organization for the better. There are so many people who aren't Greek - and while they don't all have to be Greek I must admit they would make very good candidates and eventually members.

Why should they be denied simply because in the past it has "been that way"? Things/people/companies/organizations/policies, can and do change all the time. Why should teenagers and young adults be the only ones building membership in our organizations?

But don't you think that NPHCs offer an much richer and involved alumnae membership in general? I don't intend to slight NPC groups, but we didn't generally communicate to women their obligation to join and pay dues to a alumnae/grad chapter upon graduation when I was an undergraduate.

I think my own group does a better job with this now, but I think the idea that the sorority involved a lifelong commitment to involvement and service is something that maybe 10% of NPCers took to heart but that 90% of NPHCers did.

I think most NPC members think alumnae status is about rec. writing and legacies.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

So, again, the answer is to sit and wait for what you want to drop into your lap...? The people I most admire in life are the ones who make things happen. IF my GLO does develop an AI route to membership, those are the kind of people I hope are interested because those are the kind who can add the most to our organization.

No.

Your answer is to live your life, be involved in the community, maybe meet women who are in the sorority.

You can't make it happen.

Even if a sorority takes inquiries from PNAMs, you still can't "make it happen?" Who's to say that just because you can contact them means that your initiative is going to "make it happen?"

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think most NPC members think alumnae status is about rec. writing and legacies.

Maybe it's a regional thing but I certainly don't think this. Never have.

I also joined my sorority late-ish in college so it was just a natural next step.

I didn't have the "4 year burnout" that people get.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Maybe it's a regional thing but I certainly don't think this.

Ditto. We don't do recs up here and there are hardly any legacies either.

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Neither of you are members of an NPC sorority (If I am wrong I apologize) so I don't think you completely understand how we do things, and why.

True. I'm not a member of an NPC and, therefore, not privy to many of the inner workings of your organizations. That's why I'm asking questions --- to build my understanding. Thanks for your response!

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Cool. I am not certain if Sigma allows non-member advisors at this time though, but I would need to check on that. That's so nice of you to offer!

Honestly, I think that that's part of the reason that my sorority offers AI, because they want to provide chapters with qualified advisors where there are none. I personally think that's great.

However, I am not sure it exists to fulfill middle-aged women's dreams of being in sorority. If you're willing to SERVE Sigma, great. I'm all for it. But if all you can tell me is that it hsas been your "dream" to be a Sigma since undergrad, I tend to think you're a little suspect. It's not about what Sigma can do for you, but what YOU can do for Sigma.

I was thinking more along the lines of if I was working for the University, advising that way, holding time management and research skills workshops, help write cover letters, dress for and do mock interviews, etiquette dinners not internal Sigma operations but more general stuff. Events that could also be open to campus women, so it serves a greater good for women, and Sigma could be the sponsoring group. Raise awareness of Sigma, women's groups, women's issues, and promote a positive sorority image and experience. Volunteering with an organization other than my own has been real eye opening, and if I'm somewhere Alpha Gam isn't, why not offer my time and talents inter-fraternally to my NPC sisters?

Of course that will be right after I get the Alpha Gam Arctic Junior Circle going, and buy a house.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

But don't you think that NPHCs offer an much richer and involved alumnae membership in general? I don't intend to slight NPC groups, but we didn't generally communicate to women their obligation to join and pay dues to a alumnae/grad chapter upon graduation when I was an undergraduate.

I think my own group does a better job with this now, but I think the idea that the sorority involved a lifelong commitment to involvement and service is something that maybe 10% of NPCers took to heart but that 90% of NPHCers did.

I think most NPC members think alumnae status is about rec. writing and legacies.

If what a woman wants is more along the lines of what NPHC groups offer, wouldn't it make more sense to,oh, I don't know, pursue membership in a NPHC group?

eta - maybe the op would be interested in the "If you could design an AI program" thread.

I think rec writing is more of an APH thing - at least, in my experience. The APH members get the information from APH, and then follow their GLO's procedure to procure recs. While of course individual alumnae write recs for girls they know, the vast majority of recs (which are so important down here) probably come through APHs.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Maybe it's a regional thing but I certainly don't think this. Never have.

I also joined my sorority late-ish in college so it was just a natural next step.

I didn't have the "4 year burnout" that people get.

Originally Posted by AGDee

Ditto. We don't do recs up here and there are hardly any legacies either.

What percentage of graduates are active in alumnae groups 10 years out of college? I think my 10% may have been low, but I don't really know. When I look at the size of the group at alumnae events vs. the number of undergraduates at chapters in the area, it looks like a tiny number of involved alumnae.

I didn't mean that alumnae are all concerned with those two issues, but I think they pretty much only think about their memberships as alumnae when they know a PNM or when they have kids. I think that most graduates think about their own memberships in a backwards kind of memories-of-college kind of way.

I'm not saying this is the way they should think, but I don't think NPC alumnae membership is typically comparable to NPHC alumnae membership.

You could work with an NPC alumna for years and suddenly find out she was greek. You're probably going to know of NPHC membership pretty early on, even if the signs are subtle. What's up with the African Violets or all the Ivy?

[SWTXBelle]

Oh, I think NPCs are doing a better job of informing new members about the concept of lifetime membership, but we still have a fair amount of work to do. I don't know that a more open AI program is the answer.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

Correct: I'm not. And we don't have AI. (We have an honorary membership process, but that totally isn't open for anyone to apply to.)

I was just stating my opinion, from what I've seen from a relative who sought AI in an NPC and was turned away, a neighbor who's very involved in her NPC, and what I've read here.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but it was only my honest opinion and I offered it.

So you don't select for honoary membership from those who approach you, you bestow it upon women you feel deserve it? That's how many NPC groups view AI. There's one I can think of that operates that way, and do not take "cold calls" but rarely offer it to women who they select (for example house mothers, female faculty advisors, mothers, etc.). What really sticks out to me is that your relative "sought" AI in an NPC, and perhaps that group (or even the women she contacted in that group) didn't feel it was appropriate or didn't follow their policies for alumnae membership.

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

True. I'm not a member of an NPC and, therefore, not privy to many of the inner workings of your organizations. That's why I'm asking questions --- to build my understanding. Thanks for your response!

The point I want to make sure I get across, is that there are no set rules when it comes to individual membership processes of NPC groups, we just agree on standards for the recruitment process and that we won't take initiated members of other groups. Even though I am privy to how Alpha Gam membership works, I know each recruitment, each potential member, and each potential AI are distinct situations and decisions made at a place and a point in time, and those decisions may play out very differently based on who is involved, where it is happening, and other factors. We can't give you hard and fast information because we're dealing with individuals on both sides (members and those would want to become members).

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

If what a woman wants is more along the lines of what NPHC groups offer, wouldn't it make more sense to,oh, I don't know, pursue membership in a NPHC group?

eta - maybe the op would be interested in the "If you could design an AI program" thread.

I think rec writing is more of an APH thing - at least, in my experience. The APH members get the information from APH, and then follow their GLO's procedure to procure recs. While of course individual alumnae write recs for girls they know, the vast majority of recs (which are so important down here) probably come through APHs.

Oh, I'm with you about the first part. I think about the NPHC groups frequently and have a lot of admiration for them, but I not saying that NPC groups should try to copy them, particularly because it's not part of the heritage of the groups really.

I may have made my point about the rec writing poorly. I think that for most of the greeks I've known since I graduated as an undergraduate, unless I met them in the context of APH, writing recs for girls might be the only activity they perform in a given year for their groups, and I don't even think that most alumnae write them every year.

But you may be correct that the majority of recs written in a given year come through APH. I'm certainly not disputing that.

ETA: I'm not in the people-ought-to-be-able-to-put-themselves-up-for-AI camp at all. My point about limited involvement for most NPC alumnae members is part of the reason why I think people pursuing membership at this level is suspect. And I really do mean pursuing as in the sense of chasing it, not merely completing the process that they've been invited to.

[SWTXBelle]

It also bears mentioning that all NPC alumnae groups are not the same - some are more social, some more philanthropic, those near collegiate chapters are far more active in a different way than those who aren't. It depends on the group dynamic and the individual members.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It also bears mentioning that all NPC alumnae groups are not the same - some are more social, some more philanthropic, those near collegiate chapters are far more active in a different way than those who aren't. It depends on the group dynamic and the individual members.

No doubt. ETA: this seemed a lot more argumentative than I meant it to. I have no quarrel at all with what you've said.

I suspect that the percentage of active undergraduates who remain active alumnae is pretty small.

Does anyone know any general figures? It seems like something that would be frequently discussed at the national or international level. Maybe even studied by the NPC.

[honeychile]

For the most part, AI is still a fairly new phenomenom. Talk to fifty NPC alumnas and you'll probably get at least 40 different answers. I can only speak for Alpha Delta Pi, and wouldn't begin to comment on other NPC sororities.

For us, we had an Honorary Initiate catagory for decades. It was for Housemothers, Deans, and Super-ADPi-Women. My chapter tried to sponsor someone for Honorary Initiation, but it was a no-go - but our Housemother was initiated without a snag.

That said, the biggest problem I see is that there just isn't the necessary information about how each GLO participates - or does not participate - in Alumnae Initiation. Even with an article in our Adelphean, there is still an air of confusion about AI, and until it's made clear to every alumnae association, and the alumnae accept each AI on her own accreditation & not by her college experience, I don't see it becoming the "wave of the future" that some would like to see.

Finally, I'm personally old school about this: any woman who is an ADPi is a sister of mine, whether she pledged at a top chapter as a freshman, or was initiated by an alumnae association at the age of sixty. I love our ideals, and if our EO deems a woman respectable enough to wear our pin, I will respect her as a sister.