Wake Forest Chi Omegas Relinquish their charter

[33girl]

kathy, do you mean me posting it or them putting it online? I don't want to offend anyone...if it does, I'll cut and paste an abridged version. I just thought it was a similar issue.

[xo_kathy]

Sorry for the confusion 33. I was referring to the EKT ladies but I am sending you a PM...

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by 33girl
Teaching history and passdowns are fine, but it sounds as though the national officers in charge at the time of their Chi O colonization actually gave them too much leeway. Start as you mean to go on.

This is one of the things that bothered me too. From the sound of her post, Chi Omega was at first accepting of the fact that they planned to continue Fideles traditions, but assumed that within a few years the girls would lose interest in Fideles. When this didn't happen, HQ got mad. Like it or not, this organization was Fideles for years before it was Chi Omega, and it's ridiculous to expect that they will drop their local history just like that. Most organizations with a strong local history DO continue to teach it and incorporate some of its traditions. I'm not sure why Chi O thought this would be different.

As for the drinking, yes, that is a risk management issue. But really, if you're looking for a sorority or fraternity who doesn't have at least one or two members who have broken the rules that she mentioned, you won't find one. If this group is a risk management issue, all groups are risk management issues. We can't shut down every sorority on every campus.

I do realize that what we're reading is slanted, but if things did happen more or less the way she's explaining, I do think the national organization is in the wrong. I mean, if they tried to claim that a candle pass is HAZING -- come on, guys. That's ridiculous.

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
This is one of the things that bothered me too. From the sound of her post, Chi Omega was at first accepting of the fact that they planned to continue Fideles traditions, but assumed that within a few years the girls would lose interest in Fideles. When this didn't happen, HQ got mad. Like it or not, this organization was Fideles for years before it was Chi Omega, and it's ridiculous to expect that they will drop their local history just like that. Most organizations with a strong local history DO continue to teach it and incorporate some of its traditions. I'm not sure why Chi O thought this would be different.

I do realize that what we're reading is slanted, but if things did happen more or less the way she's explaining, I do think the national organization is in the wrong. I mean, if they tried to claim that a candle pass is HAZING -- come on, guys. That's ridiculous

S&S - You are one of my favorite people here on GC. And I can honestly say, this is the only time I disagree with you. But you are correct, it's a slatned view. We have truly no idea how the teaching of their history was agreed upon when the chapter was granted a charter. However, I would venture to say that many of the women currently on Governing Council were there when this chapter got it's charter and were some of the people agreeing to the Fideles teachings. Our Governing Council has a lot of women who repeat terms or who move to different positions. I know of 3 of the 5 off-hand who were in different positions on Governing Coucil when I pledged in 1995!!! Therefore, it's not like one group of ladies agreed to the rules then another changed it. Perhaps there was an agreed upon way the transition was to happen, and the chapter wasn't abiding? Again, I'm just speculating.

Also, you may think the candle pass thing silly, but remember, when I pledged tests were normal, scavenger hunts fun, and lord knows when people my parents age pledged FAR worse things were allowed and we now consider it hazing. Things change. You accept it and try to make it work, or you decide not to. These ladies obviously did not want to change. And that's fine. It is their decision. But please, people (not S&S specifically!), do not assume our Nationals did this in a vindictive, hurtful way. All we are hearing is the side of a very, understandably, hurt and sad collegian.

(S&S - I still think you rock!)

[Dancindeac]

Hello everyone -
Well, someone who read my journal sent me along in this direction so I thought I would come see what was going on. First of all, I am not sure how my journal got up here, but hey - it is the internet. You don't publish anything you wouldn't want your mother to see.

Second of all, thank you to everyone for your support - and for your criticism. For those of you who acknowledged especially that this journal was written during a very emotional and stressful time, I thank you for your understanding and open-mindedness. I'm only human - and I do write that journal mainly as an emotional outlet and for close friends and family.

Dear Chi Omegas (and other Greeks) - I am so sorry if any of you are offended by what you perceived as Chi Omega bashing or outright disrespect for Chi Omega, for Nationals, and for the sisterhood. Please accept this apology. My words weren't intended to be hurtful in any manner and my sisterhood's loyalties to Fideles do not undermine our love for Chi Omega. I made the analogy in the beginning that Fideles is the foundation upon which we built our Chi Omega upon - there wouldn't be one without the other. It is hard for a sisterhood that doesn't have a local chapter history to understand - as I said, most of my readers are fellow Wake Forest students, so they understand the blending of the societies and sororities.

As I read all of your posts - and I did read all of them - I was making mental notes that there were many I would like to reply to and clarify, but I would end up writing a whole other long journal entry (and if you read my journal entry, you know brevity of words is NOT my specialty.) If I can answer anyone's questions specifically, I would do my best to.

And lastly, I would like to address one stream I saw come up consisitently. Yes - we did break laws and Chi Omega national policies and yes, it may be flagrantly disrespectful to both the constituion of the US and Chi O to admit that. But I would ask you - can every single one of you, especially as a college student, admit to me your perfection as a human being? I did not confess to these mistakes in order to throw them back into Chi Omega Nationals face - I did it in order to be fair, and admit our mistakes so as not to present myself in any sort of unjust self-righteous manner.

We are 21 year olds, we are learning growing mistake making human beings. I don't expect perfection from myself, my sisters or any of my peers. I, as well as my sisters, were expecting punishment and a chance to reform from Nationals (and as far as the true problem goes of why we received our probation sentence it had to do with underage drinking) - we didn't feel the punishment fit the crime. It was up to you to be the judge of that.


I've enjoyed reading all y'alls opinions, both supportive and opposed. You all have made very insightful commentary and I'm glad I've stumbled upon this. I am curious as to who the original poster is and how you came across my journal??

Take care yall,

Meghan

[damasa]

Originally posted by xo_kathy

(S&S - I still think you rock!)

Semi-Hijack

Don't go telling her that! You are going to swell her head even more!

bwahahaha

/end semi-hijack

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
S&S - You are one of my favorite people here on GC. And I can honestly say, this is the only time I disagree with you. But you are correct, it's a slatned view. We have truly no idea how the teaching of their history was agreed upon when the chapter was granted a charter. However, I would venture to say that many of the women currently on Governing Council were there when this chapter got it's charter and were some of the people agreeing to the Fideles teachings. Our Governing Council has a lot of women who repeat terms or who move to different positions. I know of 3 of the 5 off-hand who were in different positions on Governing Coucil when I pledged in 1995!!! Therefore, it's not like one group of ladies agreed to the rules then another changed it. Perhaps there was an agreed upon way the transition was to happen, and the chapter wasn't abiding? Again, I'm just speculating.

Also, you may think the candle pass thing silly, but remember, when I pledged tests were normal, scavenger hunts fun, and lord knows when people my parents age pledged FAR worse things were allowed and we now consider it hazing. Things change. You accept it and try to make it work, or you decide not to. These ladies obviously did not want to change. And that's fine. It is their decision. But please, people (not S&S specifically!), do not assume our Nationals did this in a vindictive, hurtful way. All we are hearing is the side of a very, understandably, hurt and sad collegian.

(S&S - I still think you rock!)

Awww, yay! I think you rock too. And I didn't mean for my post to come off as an attack on Chi Omega, if it sounded like that to anyone. They are a fantastic organization (didn't get to be the biggest sorority in the NPC for nothing ) and in general I have all the respect in the world for them. I just see things like this as indicative of a larger problem in the Greek-wide community, and I've seen it happen in my organization and many others, not just Chi O.

We ask ourselves why Greek numbers are declining, and I see this as a perfect example. Whether or not we like to admit it, the majority of students do not join GLOs primarily for the philanthropy, the connections or even the brother/sisterhood. They join primarily because they think it would be fun -- specifically for the easy access to alcohol and the opposite sex that we're known for. With the kind of draconian rules in place with some GLOs, numbers are going to decline because we're losing out on our biggest market.

I live in the house right now. If I want to drink, I have to go to a fraternity party or a friend's house. My friends who live in their own apartments can drink whenever they want. Even my friends who live in the dorms and aren't technically supposed to be drinking can drink as long as they keep their doors shut. They can have boys over whenever they want, but if I want my boyfriend to come over, I have to kick him out by 2. (And on my campus, that's considered good -- there are some sororities who don't allow boys on any floor but the first floor, ever.) If we have parties, we have to hold them halfway across campus and go hiking around in heels and dresses in the cold, because we can't have them at the house or at a fraternity. At the parties, we can't drink unless we're 21, even though some of us have been drinking for years without incident. And the list goes on.

If people are looking for fun, why SHOULD they join a fraternity or sorority? Provided they're social, they can make tons of friends in the dorms. They can party and drink and have boys over in the dorms -- and let's face it, for a lot of college students, alcohol and sex are a huge part of the college experience. For some they're second and third only to academics. And we as Greek members are subjected to many rules that the rest of campus isn't, and we pay hundreds of dollars a year for the privilege. No wonder Greek numbers are declining!

Now I'm not blaming the national organizations because most of the time they're just trying to cover their own @$$es. But I also don't blame students for not joining. It's basically a lose-lose situation.

Also, Blaine, you know you love me.

[DeltAlum]

Meghan,

It was good of you to post, especially considering that we, as individuals and as a group, have both agreed and disagreed with you. The tone of your post reflects a very mature attitude, and I enjoyed reading your comments and commend you for them.

I must point out, though, that while you are correct in saying that there may be no chapter that is perfect, and does not break some rules or the law -- that doesn't change the dynamics.

Unfortunately, the law is the law. When a chapter breaks the law, it puts everyone in the chapter organization, their parents and their Nationals at risk.

It is my unfortunate conclusion (posted many times before), that it is the "everybody does it" attitude that may foster the final downfall of the Greek System as we know it. I pray that I'm wrong. I fervently wish that things could be dialed back to the way things were when I pledged in the mid 60's -- before the huge lawsuits became the norm instead of the unusual. When the drinking age was 18. When our actions weren't always so serious.

In my final analysis, the members of your chapter chose your own course in a number of ways. That happens in business on a more personal basis when a person decides to disagree with a boss or department head and loses his or her job. Been there/done that at an earlier age. I would love to say that I was so right that I would take the same path today. Unfortunatly, I wouldn't. Whether I was right or wrong, I handled it incorrectly. I don't know whether you did or not -- but I do know that your chapter openly broke the rules and laws -- admitted it -- and said you would continue the practice.

This is a straightforward reading on my part, and is not meant to point directly at you personally (consider that word to the the generic "you" meaning the entire chapter, please).

There is never a single side to any human dynamic, and I'm sure that there were actions from Chi Omega Nationals that seem wrong to you. It wouldn't be fair, though, for them to treat you differently from the rest of the sorority.

In the end, unfortunately, all the two groups could agree on was to disagree.

That's too bad.

I wish you and your chapter the best of luck in the future.

[Dancindeac]

Hi DeltAlum -

Thank you for the been there/done there - its always good to have the perspective of someone who can look down the road and tell you where the path could lead. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

I concede that "everybody does it" is not the way to go. After speaking with my brother, whos fratnerity went down a similar misfortunate path in the late 90s, it's apparent to me that as a probable liability to Chi Omega Nationals, if they found probable evidence that we were hazing, drinking, etc - it is within the rights of their authority to take our charter away, much less put a probation upon us even if the result was that we felt so cornered we ended up reliquishing it.

On the bright side, this isn't the end of the story and we are recovening with National reps tonite to hopefully reach some sort of compromise. I fully hope that both groups can admit their mistakes and that some changes can be made that will lead us to find some middle ground and not have to walk away from something so important to so many people. I think my sisters feel the way the situation was handled has weighed more heavily upon us than the actual doling of the punishment.

But from a "strictly business" point of view - I agree with you.

From a "from the heart" point of view - well, I am too much in throng of things to separate my grief at the situation of my sisterhood.

Que sera, sera. I am sure that the best will come from this situation in the long-run, for both sides, whatever the outcome may be.

[texas*princess]

DancinDeac, I want to echo the sentiments of BrownEyedGirl. It definately takes a lot to have to be in the position that you and your sisters are in, and even more courage to share it with us.

[adpiucf]

I may get flamed for this, but I want to offer my (long-winded) perspective.

As an international officer of my own sorority, I can honestly say that it is the most difficult decision in the world for the sorority to close a chapter (in this case, however, a probation was assigned, and not an official charter being revoked). The sorority will do everything in its power to help the chapter recognize their wrong doing and assign a probation that educates the members on the correct procedures and measures to ensure the policies are strictly adhered to henceforth. These probations are not thoughtlessly constructed. The sorority is legally bound to its members, and when things go wrong, as they sometimes will, each sorority member is liable for her actions and the actions of the other members. Like it or not, we are our sisters' keepers.

That being said, international/national officers are sisters and are unpaid volunteers. They take no pleasure in a chapter's alleged failures to comply with sorority policy, and do not take time out of their personal lives to travel many miles to sleep in a college dorm room in order to interrogate and subject collegiate members to unnecessary conferences. They are genuinely trying to help adhere chapters with sorority and NPC policy, both to protect that chapter and the overall organization from a breach of policy that can lead to lawsuits and the ultimate destruction of the overall organization.

Having worked with chapters who have erred and been assigned a probation, I will say this-- emotions run wild when these things happen-- women step off the executive committee, women cancel their memberships, others stop coming around or paying their dues, there is an air of resentment that can affect both recruitment and new member retention, members will gossip about sorority business outside of the chapter, spreading the news among the Greek Community and campus media, etc. It can be a very unfavorable environment for the 20 year old who has joined a sorority in the interests of making lifelong friends and having an enjoyable college experience. No socials with fraternties and mandatory education workshops that, in their eyes, is just fuel to the fire-- beating a dead horse-- damn right, I would be resentful for paying dues to a social organization that isn't doing any socializing! I know some sororities will not put a chapter on a full social probation in order to maintain positive campus PR.

It's very tricky for the international org to come in and stop incorrect practices. You are injuring the overall group if nothing is done, and you are alienating the chapter-in-fault with the discplinary action.

Most often, probationary terms are handed down due to the careless actions of a few members, because the alumnae advisers turned their heads or were not in the loop to know about "gray areas" where the women turned to hazing, alcohol in the house, etc.--- all of the things that become an insurance nightmare. If a chapter becomes a threat to the overall sorority's insurance coverage, the national org has an obligation on behalf of that chapter and every other chapter of the sorority to step in and evaluate the problem. It can be intensely emotional for everyone involved. I've spent plenty of nights crying into my pillow out of sheer emotional exhaustion, and I am an alumna!

Once a local sorority becomes part of an NPC, I can't imagine an NPC allowing local ritual traditions to continue, outside of educating new members, "This is where we came from." Otherwise, it corrupts the sorority ritual that unites that national group. I believe that the members of the Wake Forest chapter today were mistakenly informed by older alumnae that they could continue their traditions in secret. The current chapter members are not at fault for this misinformation, but when pointed out constructively, the chapter and Chi Omega could come to an understanding-- perhaps an event with older alumnae to come to the house and tell stories about life at the university in "their day"--- that would let the older alum feel that they still had a link to the group, and Chi Omega structure is also maintained.

For the national officers insisting that the chapter make an immediate decision regarding the probation, I believe it would have been in the best interests for them to have departed and sent a letter to their Grand Council with their findings and together determine the probation--- and informing the exec and their advisers of the national officers' evaluation and recommendations, as well as the terms of probation by letter, with an opportunity for the chapter to respond. The exec could have discussed this among themselves, and had a follow-up visit from the national team, where a rational and mature discussion regarding the nature of the probation and its specific details could have occurred. Instead, the national team walked right into a detail of very emotionally charged and confused collegians. I am not advocating that I understand this is Chi O's policy for handing down probations, but I feel this added unecessary stress and drama to the situation.

Chi Omega has an impeccable national reputation and has that reputation exists because of their due diligence with each and every Chi Omega chapter. I feel deeply for the Wake Forest chapter and the emotional time they have endured, but I believe they should go into this next meeting with maturity and an open heart, as Chi Omegas, and listen to their national team to collectively determine what is best for Chi Omega and why it is best for Chi Omega. Both "sides" can acknowledge mistakes may have been made-- the chapter violating sorority policy and the national team presenting their findings in a nature that only inflamed the sensitivites of the chapter--- and move forward to a resolution that supports and helps this chapter of Chi Omega rectify the situation and remedy their relationship and perception of the overall national sorority.

[sigmagrrl]

They may not have their charter any longer, but if the ladies of the "de-chartered" chapter still have their individual memberships in Chi Omega, I hope they will take their experiences and use it for the greater good of the organization after they've had time to reflect and gain perspective. I hope the women continue to participate on a larger scale, and contribute to the Fraternity in some way in the future, whether it be volunteering as a National Officer, serving as a Chapter Advisor, or making financial contributions to the Fraternity's foundation.....


I know that I would personally be devastated if my chapter lost their charter, and it almost happened a few times. It's almost like losing your parent or your identity. I belong to an alum chapter where most of the ladies' chapters are no more and they are very angry still, and some of them lost the charters in the 1950's! For them, it was a wound that never healed and they are still bitter in many detrimental ways. I try to continuously encourage them to see the bigger picture (I point out to them that they MUST still love and care for our Sorority and our Sisters if they are members of the alumnae chapter), but it's a challenge...

[33girl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Awww, yay! I think you rock too. And I didn't mean for my post to come off as an attack on Chi Omega, if it sounded like that to anyone. They are a fantastic organization (didn't get to be the biggest sorority in the NPC for nothing ) and in general I have all the respect in the world for them. I just see things like this as indicative of a larger problem in the Greek-wide community, and I've seen it happen in my organization and many others, not just Chi O.

We ask ourselves why Greek numbers are declining, and I see this as a perfect example. Whether or not we like to admit it, the majority of students do not join GLOs primarily for the philanthropy, the connections or even the brother/sisterhood. They join primarily because they think it would be fun -- specifically for the easy access to alcohol and the opposite sex that we're known for. With the kind of draconian rules in place with some GLOs, numbers are going to decline because we're losing out on our biggest market.

I live in the house right now. If I want to drink, I have to go to a fraternity party or a friend's house. My friends who live in their own apartments can drink whenever they want. Even my friends who live in the dorms and aren't technically supposed to be drinking can drink as long as they keep their doors shut. They can have boys over whenever they want, but if I want my boyfriend to come over, I have to kick him out by 2. (And on my campus, that's considered good -- there are some sororities who don't allow boys on any floor but the first floor, ever.) If we have parties, we have to hold them halfway across campus and go hiking around in heels and dresses in the cold, because we can't have them at the house or at a fraternity. At the parties, we can't drink unless we're 21, even though some of us have been drinking for years without incident. And the list goes on.

If people are looking for fun, why SHOULD they join a fraternity or sorority? Provided they're social, they can make tons of friends in the dorms. They can party and drink and have boys over in the dorms -- and let's face it, for a lot of college students, alcohol and sex are a huge part of the college experience. For some they're second and third only to academics. And we as Greek members are subjected to many rules that the rest of campus isn't, and we pay hundreds of dollars a year for the privilege. No wonder Greek numbers are declining!

Now I'm not blaming the national organizations because most of the time they're just trying to cover their own @$$es. But I also don't blame students for not joining. It's basically a lose-lose situation.

Also, Blaine, you know you love me.

as usual, I feel like we are sharing a brain, cause I'm thinking exactly the same thing.

yes these women were breaking rules regarding alcohol. I doubt if now is the first it's happened. It is, however, the easiest thing to target. I mean, how do you gauge a person's loyalty? Is following policies you see as detrimental to your group's future loyal? I have no idea of the atmosphere at this school, but if they followed extremely strict policies and no one pledged because of them, how loyal would that be?

And I will say without going into too much detail, that it is very, very hard when the things that you see as strengths of your chapter, the reasons you joined your chapter, are things your national sees as weaknesses. It creates a gulf that is almost impossible to close. It appears that the long history of Fideles was that sort of gulf.

oh, and I'm guessing/hoping the natl office wasn't aware of it, but having to make that sort of decision when half your sisters are out of town, let alone the country, really blows.

[shadokat]

Not in every instance. It's really up to the international organization to decide if the situation warrants the allowance of alumnae status or dissolution without it. I would doubt, given the circumstances of their probation, that they were offered alumnae status. The post is sad for both sides if you ask me. Nobody knows the real story of this except those five XO officers and the chapter. One girl's interpretation isn't the final word.

Originally posted by PSPGirl
Wouldn't these girls be considered Chi Omega alumnae? Normally, when a group loses their charter, the members go alum.

[shadokat]

You're not your sister's keeper. You are your sister's sister! We all screw up sometimes, and canceling a date with your boyfriend to make sure one of your sisters gets home safely, whether on probation or not, is the duty of you as a sister!! Would you let a member of your family in the situation and go out with your boyfriend?

As for the responsibility issue, signed papers aside, in all organizations, there are four major parties for parents to go after if a GLO is involved in a risk management issue. They are the national organization, the chapter, the university, and the chapter members' parents. I've watched it happen twice at my own university, and trust me, it's ugly. But most organizations, if they choose to break policy of their group, forfeit their right to the insurance they pay for, and thusly won't be covered for any risk management violations.

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I think it's totally unreasonable. It makes us babysitters for our sisters - why should I have to cancel a date with my boyfriend to make sure a girl on social probation doesn't drunk drive in her letters? My parents are not responsible for a girl they have never met who couldn't be controlled by Valium and a straightjacket.