Discrepancies in the way we view rush

[Little E]

I feel like we are kinda comparing apples to oranges. I went to a school where joining a sorority gave you NO additional social standing, in fact, if anything, it knocked you down a few tiers. (Though everyone would attend our parties ) At the 'southern' schools, there seems to be a social tier benefit to joining, it is more like a business move than necessarily a social move.

We took women who were called skanks, but so did all the other groups. We took women who graduated virgins, so did all the other groups. I went to a school with one NPC and two locals, no defined quota, no rush rules except deffered till spring. In all honestly, if we wanted to defy national and serve alcohol to our rushees and have boys over we probably would have been able to get away with it. Water teas are another planet.

I still think our founders never envisioned SEC style rush, however, we are a long way from grabbing freshman and running them from the train/bus to the house to be pinned.

[CarolinaDG]

Originally posted by bekibug
Ah, but what rushee does? The girls they're talking to are "on the inside" so they're more in the know about what's going on, right? Even if it is gossip, rushees take close to everything you tell them as truth. Girls will drop ABC because they're told they have to stand on their head and sing the alphabet backwards during pledging if that's what someone in XYZ told them because "her best friend is an ABC." You can tell girls till you're blue in the face to ignore "tent talk" and rumors but they won't. That's why you don't want people to think you have a pledge class full of skanks--PNM's don't want people to think that they're skanks too because of their affiliation. They may even go so far as to believe that once pledged, they have to sleep with a whole fraternity if someone tells them that's a requirement for joining your sorority.

My favorite is the rumor that I heard when I was going through that "XYZ" circles body parts that the girls need to correct. A year later, my little sis asked me if "AB" sorority circled body parts that the girls need to correct. So, within a year, the sorority that supposedly did this had changed.

Trust me, very few PNM's actually ignore the rumors going around about sororities. I know I didn't. This reminds me of the other thread, "Stupid reasons why you cut a sorority."

[FSUZeta]

the north vs. south thing: it just makes for a lot of controversy. if the northern sororities were as accepting as it is professed they are, then the northern chapters would be the largest in the respective sororities.

[33girl]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
the north vs. south thing: it just makes for a lot of controversy. if the northern sororities were as accepting as it is professed they are, then the northern chapters would be the largest in the respective sororities.

That's the same as saying "If Harvard was that good of a school, everyone there would have a 4.0."

[kddani]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
the north vs. south thing: it just makes for a lot of controversy. if the northern sororities were as accepting as it is professed they are, then the northern chapters would be the largest in the respective sororities.

Care to explain that logic further? I'd like to see how northern schools' lack of acceptance make them smaller than southern chapters. Please, show me this lack of acceptance and some proof of this statement

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
the north vs. south thing: it just makes for a lot of controversy. if the northern sororities were as accepting as it is professed they are, then the northern chapters would be the largest in the respective sororities.

This is not true. Nearly all recruitment systems operate on a quota system, whether a huge Southern school or a small Northern school. The number of PNMs interested in going through rush largely determines how many new members each sorority is permitted to take, not how accepting the chapters are. IN GENERAL, there is more interest in joining a sorority at a large, Southern school because
a. they are more likely to have grown up with knowledge of the Greek system (with sorority alumnae in their families, friends who join at other schools, etc.)
b. the thriving, huge Greek system already in place at the college attracts more applicants.

With your skewed logic (chapter size would be positively correlated with acceptance and non-shallow membership selection), would that not also mean that the large Southern schools should be highly accepting? And that is the whole point of this thread... that they are NOT.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
the north vs. south thing: it just makes for a lot of controversy.

If I may paraphrase a few of our fine Southern gentlewomen.

It is just precious how so many lovely folk - from north of the Mason-Dixon line, from non-Southern schools of higher learning, and even some of our own kin - just get their little ole nickers in a twist over Southern recruitment. Why I do declare that it is just too cute for words.

[Little E]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
the north vs. south thing: it just makes for a lot of controversy. if the northern sororities were as accepting as it is professed they are, then the northern chapters would be the largest in the respective sororities.

I thought we established that it wasn't just north/south, but that it is the most obvious divide to refer to and the SEC schools are just one example of the rush type we are talking about. No one has condemed the 'south' on how they do rush.

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie
This is not true. Nearly all recruitment systems operate on a quota system, whether a huge Southern school or a small Northern school. The number of PNMs interested in going through rush largely determines how many new members each sorority is permitted to take, not how accepting the chapters are. IN GENERAL, there is more interest in joining a sorority at a large, Southern school because
a. they are more likely to have grown up with knowledge of the Greek system (with sorority alumnae in their families, friends who join at other schools, etc.)
b. the thriving, huge Greek system already in place at the college attracts more applicants.

With your skewed logic (chapter size would be positively correlated with acceptance and non-shallow membership selection), would that not also mean that the large Southern schools should be highly accepting? And that is the whole point of this thread... that they are NOT.

Ditto to what she said. I feel like in a lot of the Southern schools there is more of a need for girls to join sororities for the social aspect of it. That need doesn't always exist in Northern schools. The one Northern school that I can think of it existing at is Cornell, and Cornell has high chapter numbers, with chapter numbers being over a hundred and taking NM classes of 40-50.

[aopirose]

Originally posted by TSteven
If I may paraphrase a few of our fine Southern gentlewomen.

It is just precious how so many lovely folk - from north of the Mason-Dixon line, from non-Southern schools of higher learning, and even some of our own kin - just get their little ole nickers in a twist over Southern recruitment. Why I do declare that it is just too cute for words.

Why TSteven! You almost made me spill my mint julep, you precious thing.

[CAREPHISIG]

We are getting to crazy with this Rush 'fighting' between North & South, really who cares. It is hard to follow on here because all of us have different CAMPUSES and different OPINIONS. What works for one college, does not work for others. Some have houses, some don't. I know you guys are trying to prove a point, but what I'm saying is, it is basically pointless b/c all of us have DIFFERENT FORMAL RECRUITMENTS!!!

[FSUZeta]

you are all correct. the statement i made was absurd....it was meant to be. i tire of people who are self-appointed southern recruitment experts expounding on the unfairness, shallowness and down right bitchiness of southern recruitment, when you have nothing to base your knowledge on, other than hearsay. i cannot recall one thread where we southerners lambasted the way northern schools conduct their recruitment. if you want to conduct your recruitment in the winter, in the snow and your pnms can just casually drop in to meet the sisters,unscheduled, fine say we! most of us southernbelles love southern style recruitment. its competitive, its glitzy, its entertaining and its fun. we wouldn't have it any other way.

[PsychTau2]

Interesting discussion. One that could go on for years.

Has anyone considered the caliber/type of girls going to these different schools? I considered going to U of Arkansas while in high school. Definitely an SEC school, definitely a large recruitment, definitely before school starts...it definitely fits into the stereotype of "Southern Recruitment." We even have pricey boutiques in the Little Rock area that advertise their "Rush Clothes" and have fashion shows on what to wear and what not to wear at the major schools' recruitment in Arkansas (and they include Lily and all those other designers I can't name).

At U of A, you either are attached to a group/organization (whether it be band, Greek, athletic, even the dorm you live in, or something else) or you pretty much "don't exist". It's such a large campus that most students are encouraged to join something in order to give them a "home base" or an anchor. Otherwise you can feel very lost.

Anyway, I visted U of A THREE times before I finally decided that I just didn't fit in. I wasn't comfortable on campus...no one talked to me when I was walking around. I didn't feel comfortable there, it wasn't for me, and I didn't go. Had I gone to U of A, I would not have considered recruitment. I wasn't that "type"...it didn't appeal to me. The smaller school I went to did appeal to me...the recruitment style fit better as well (didn't like all of it, but most of it worked...)

In any case, I think that you could add to the argument that the TYPE of women choosing to attend the SEC schools drive the type of recruitment that happens. After all, there's probably not many people who attend SEC schools (at least) that have absolutely no interest in being associated with that school's football/basketball team. If you hate the Razorback athletic programs you probably won't go to U of A...because once you say you're a U of A grad, you're automatically a Razorback whether you like it or not.

PsychTau

[PsychTau2]

Originally posted by carnation
It's generalizing to say that all big Southern rushes are shallow. That's not why they're competitive. Alums and actives spend months behind the scenes looking up grades, activities, talking to people who have written recs. The sororities want people who'll represent them well in all aspects, not just in *pageants*. This is why a PNM should have a good resume of worthwhile activities--because sororities want workers, not ghost members or letter pimps.

Carnation, I'm going to run with this for a minute....

It's true that in a lot of the larger recruitments (also the larger national sororities at smaller schools), the PNMs backgrounds are checked out as much as possible before recruitment. However, do we actually let them KNOW this? Probably not...it is probably done behind the scenes, on the down low, etc. And most PNMs who aren't recruitment savvy (or who don't have connected Greek family members) will not have this info. Therefore, they aren't as prepared for recruitment as others, and once they see how it all works, can very well perceive it as shallow (based on the fact that all the "research" appears to be a behind the back, "gossip about my reputation" kind of thing, especially if they feel they didn't get into a top house by their definition). You get several PNMs who were heavily cut or go bidless, and that increase the chatter out there that recruitment is shallow. So in a sense we've created our own problem.

I wonder what would happen if we made the process more public (not the voting part...everyone knows that there's some sort of voting/ranking process going on that's unique to each org.)? What if we talked about the fact that if you give us a reference we're going to call them and ask some questions about how well you'd live up to our values...how well you'd contribute to the org...what makes you stand out? What if we asked them to answer the questions: "What do you want to get out of sorority life at this school? What do you plan to contribute to sorority life at this school? What do you plan to contribute after you graduate? What previous (HS or otherwise) activity was your favorite one to participate in, and why?" on their recruitment application? Aren't those the types of questions that we try to get the answer to through rush conversations anyway? Ask 'em up front!! That approach would be no different than a job interview.

I don't think there's a way to take the "shallowness" completely out of recruitment. After all, appearance and first impressions do factor in to a majority of decisions on different levels. However, I think that it would be great if we were more up front about how the process works.

PsychTau

[adpiucf]

My point of view is that recruitment is an interview. Southern competitive recruitment is scruitizined because there are many more women than there are available spots. So with the supply of PNM's exceeding the number of available new member spots, doesn't it make the most sense to first consider those with the most outstanding attributes and letters of recommendation?

I know that if it were an employment situation and I was hiring a large class of analysts, I'd want the ones who looked best on paper to come in and interview, and then I'd select the ones I got along best with and could see working well together the rest of the team.

How is recruitment any different from that?

Of course any interview process is going to appear shallow-- you are at the mercy of the interviewer's bias! If you don't meet the basic requirements and you don't get along well with the interviewer, why would you be hired or in this case, invited to membership in an organization?