As an alumna, how WELL should you know a PNM in order to write a RecForm/Sponsorship?

[CutiePie2000]

On the flip side of this thread, Collegiate members and recommendations/references , I wanted to ask this...

Even though a lot of people say, "it's up to the sorority to chase down a rec for a PNM", let's face it, the PNM is a better position if they have mobilized themselves and secured rec forms on their own . A lot of would be rushees come on this board and say "Help! I am going to do Recruitment at ___ University and I have to find recs and I don't know anyone".

Well, my question is, "How well would you personally, need to know someone in order to write a Recommendation or sponsor this individual for membership?"

For me, I would not be comfortable writing a recommendation for a PNM that I have never met (and yes, I have been approached (last year) by a Greek Chatter who wanted a Recommendation Form). I politely declined, saying that I was not comfortable doing this and since we did not know each other personally and that we had never met face to face, I didn't think it was appropriate for me to do so?

So...what do y'all think? For PNMs who are going to Rush/do Recruitment at ultra competitive schools like Ole Miss/LSU/U of Florida/USC, I think they should make every effort to put themselves in as good a position as possible...yet at the same time, what about putting alumnae in a sticky predicament where they don't a rushee personally? Someone could send me a scrap book of all their accomplishments, but still you can't know someone's CHARACTER and/or personality type from that? Or am I just being too difficult?

[XOAlumXO]

I definetly don't think you're being too harsh!! I wouldn't give a letter rec if I don't know the person. I see it this way. When I was active at UCF, we had hundreds of girls going through rush, and unfortunately, we didn't get the chance to meet every girl that walked through. We basically had to trust our sisters' opinion and go from there. That's what a letter of rec is- a sister's opinion- and I know my chapter took them very seriously! Knowing that, I would have to know the PNM before writing one. If one of my friends/co-workers knew the PNM, I would take that into consideration.

[ZTAngel]

I understand where you are coming from CutiePie.

I don't see anything wrong with asking a GC member to a write. There are many GC members who would be more than happy to do it. But, I know that personally I don't feel comfortable writing one....and I'm a collegiate member too so some chapters do not would not weigh my rec as highly.
I'm having a hard enough time writing a rec right now for my real, biological sister! I recently finished a rec for a friend of mine's younger sister. I was able to complete that within an hour. I have been working on my sister's for over two weeks. She has done so many things and her grades are phenomenal. But, it's my sister so I want it to sound just right!

[aephi alum]

I wouldn't feel comfortable with writing a rec for someone I didn't know too well.

If a friend's, neighbor's, or coworker's daughter or a friend of one of my (hypothetical future) children approached me and I knew them well enough and felt they'd be an asset to AEPhi, I'd write a rec without hesitation. (It goes without saying that I'd recommend any daughters I may have. )

If someone I knew less well approached me, I'd probably invite her over for coffee or something, chat with her, get to know her a little better, and then write a rec based on that.

If someone I barely knew came up to me out of the blue and said "Hey, I heard you're an AEPhi, I'm going to be rushing this fall, will you write a rec for me?" I'd decline. By writing a rec that says "I barely know this girl but I think she'd make a good sister" I am doing her a disservice. Plus, when you write a rec, you're putting your reputation on the line, and I'm not willing to do that for someone I barely know.

[AGD4me]

I agree that knowing someone is important... but not necessarily having to meet them face-to-face. I wouldn't be an Alpha Gamma Delta today if it weren't for an alumna who made a point to contact me in order to write me a rec.

She was close with one of my mom's best friends - they were involved on Panhellenic together. When my mom's friend heard I was going to a school without DG (my mom's affiliation), but with AGD, she immediately thought of her AGD friend and put us in touch.

I spoke with her at length over the phone - telling her about my involvement and extracurricular activities, GPA, etc. She asked me to mail her a picture, and the rest is history.

Granted, she had a good deal of info from my mom's friend who's known me all my life, and I think that helped. So if you *know* someone who knows this PNM well, it's worth the time to look into her and give it a shot. I never knew what this AGD did with my info or picture - whether she sent it in recommending me or not. And these PNMs who contact you will never know that either (membership selection is private, right?).

I'm not saying you should lie to the PNM and tell her you'll send it, but if she ends up being someone you don't think would make a good addition to your organization, there's a very small chance this girl would never even know if you sent it or not.

Sorry if I'm babbling! Just my $.02!

[UF56]

I understand what you are saying about writing people recs, but are PNM's supposed to do when there are truly no Sorority Alums in their area. This probably stems from the fact that I come from a very small rural town that is mainly all old family money, ranches and groves; which is why people did not go to college. I have been asking for the past two weeks and have found only 1, and she isnt even in my area but was listed on an Alumni website and just so happens we knew some of the same people and she contacted them about me and my character to be able to write one. But considering that I am going to UF and am a junior I need all the recs I can get. And from what I have been told on Greek Chat is to search for alums (even though I dont know them) and ask them for a rec. So what does a person supposed to do in this situation, because I am having a very difficult time.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by aephi alum
....when you write a rec, you're putting your reputation on the line, and I'm not willing to do that for someone I barely know.

My thoughts exactly....which is why I posted this thread. I am greatly appreciating all the insights and views that everyone is sharing.

So...what is to be done with "worthy" rushees who don't know anyone? Are they out of luck? It seems like such an unfortunate conundrum to be in.....

Originally posted by UF56
I understand what you are saying about writing people recs, but are PNM's supposed to do when there are truly no Sorority Alums in their area. ......But considering that I am going to UF and am a junior I need all the recs I can get. And from what I have been told on Greek Chat is to search for alums (even though I dont know them) and ask them for a rec. So what does a person supposed to do in this situation, because I am having a very difficult time.

Anyone have any good ideas? The only thing that I can suggest to you is you have a few months of lead time, so time is one your side - try to meet some alums so that you can get those rec's that you need!

Try the meeting for coffee approach, and I would say compile a resume/scrapbook, something, anything to vouch for your accomplishments that you could present to the alumna so that she could read about you. Also, if you can get Reference Letters from past teachers, Girl Scout Leaders which you can present to the sorority alumna, that assert that you are a responsible, well adjusted person who would be an asset to a chapter's membership, this would help as well. The alumna then could potentially call those people, to help her in feeling comfortable about writing the Recommendation.
I would say, that you want to make it as EASY as possible for the alumna, and if you provide her with what she needs in order to feel comfortable to "vouch for you" (i.e. to sponsor you for membership), this will only help your situation & help your case in acquiring Alumnae Rec's.

It will take effort and work on your part, but I think, best to try and be as proactive as you can. As the (paraphrased) saying goes, "God helps those who help themselves"...so I would try to mobilize yourself and do what you can. I think you will find that GC'ers will be honest and forthright when you're seeking advice, too....

I'm from Canada, so I am kind of flying by the seat of my pants here in terms of advice, not sure if what I am saying would work in the "South" (note: is Florida actually considered the "South"? Sorry for my ignorance)...does anyone have some good suggestions?

Good Luck in your Recruitment!

[AGDLynn]

While on the idea of recommendations, alumnae shouldn't forget to check out that university's recruitment policy regarding "closed contact", meaning alumnae and collegiates aren't supposed to have a lot of contact with a PNM except for Panhellenic-type settings.

For example, according to West Georgia's recruitment rules,
alumnae, along with current members, are responsible for all of the recruitment rules. The recruitment rules includes the Closed Contact policy, which states:

From the conclusion of the Spring Semester preceding Fall Semester until Fall Formal Membership Selection ends on Bid Day, all sororities shall follow the closed contact policy. Closed contact shall be defined as conversation between individual sorority members and potential members which shall be limited to Recruitment events and simple recognition of potential
members outside these events. Violations of this definition shall include, but not limited to, blatant contact with potential members, inviting potential members to visit member houses, apartments or chapter hall, extended conversation outside of recruitment events and related contact.

BTW, Cutie..Florida is a "Southern" state even though there are a lot of residents who were born/lived the majority of their life in the "Northern" states but grew tired of the cold, etc.

[dzrose93]

This is a very good topic, and I'm glad it was mentioned. Last year, I received several letters from girls who were asking for recs. They had gotten my address from our local Panhellenic Council and I didn't know a single one of them personally.

However, I took the time to call them and ask questions about their high school activities, extracurricular interests, why they were going through rush, what they were going to college to study, etc. The ones that I spoke with and were impressed by were the ones that I wrote recs for. I think I wrote 2 last summer from the long list of girls who requested them. Why the low number? Because of several reasons.

In some cases, I left two or three different messages for the girls to return my call, letting them know who I was and why I was calling, and that I needed to hear from them soon in order to get a rec in on time. Some of them never bothered to call me back. So, they got no rec from me.

In other cases, the mothers of the rushees wrote the interest letters to me. One mom even went so far as to do her own daughter's resume! My thinking was this: if the girl isn't interested enough in Rush to sit down and send out her own rec request, then she probably isn't "into" Greek Life that much. Maybe her mom is pushing it on her. So, I called the girls and asked them the standard questions, "what's your major", "why are you interested in Greek Life", "do you have any questions about Rush that I can help you with", etc. In most cases, it was like talking to a brick wall! It was quite obvious that the girls had little desire to speak with me, and I felt like I had wasted my time by calling. So, I didn't waste anymore time by writing a rec.

The girls who were friendly on the phone, who wrote their own letters and resumes, and who gave me character references to contact if I felt the need were the girls who I wrote recs for. So, even though I may not have known them personally, I felt that I knew enough about them to write a rec saying, "Hey sisters, give this girl a shot to impress you." I figured that I knew as much about them at that point as one of their teachers or friends' moms who would be writing the same thing to their NPC org.

One thing that I did do in each letter was to make sure that I stated, "I do not know this rushee personally, but from speaking with her and reviewing her resume she appears to have qualities we look for in a new member." That way, the girls knew that I was asking them to consider the rushee, but that I wouldn't be mortally wounded if she was cut.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by dzrose93
One thing that I did do in each letter was to make sure that I stated, "I do not know this rushee personally, but from speaking with her and reviewing her resume she appears to have qualities we look for in a new member." That way, the girls knew that I was asking them to consider the rushee, but that I wouldn't be mortally wounded if she was cut.

Thank you for a very good post. I think this is one way that rushees can be helped out, yet at the same time, it covers your derriere in case the person is not someone that would be suitable for membership.

Okay, Ladies, I am confused by the no contact rule in Georgia--if alums and pnms can't talk from end of spring semester to end of rush, how on earth are they supposed to get recs?
Should they approach the alums anyway (blatantly ignoring this rule) and just cross their fingers that the alums don't remember their Panhellenic regulations and that they don't get found out? I know that it's dishonest, but again.....if you need the rec, you need the rec. Advice/Insights, please?

[33girl]

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
Okay, Ladies, I am confused by the no contact rule in Georgia--if alums and pnms can't talk from end of spring semester to end of rush, how on earth are they supposed to get recs?
Should they approach the alums anyway (blatantly ignoring this rule) and just cross their fingers that the alums don't remember their Panhellenic regulations and that they don't get found out? I know that it's dishonest, but again.....if you need the rec, you need the rec. Advice/Insights, please?

I don't get that one either. It makes as much sense as telling the SEC women to chase down recs for 2000 rushees.

What I don't get is WHY that "it is the sorority's responsibility to get a rec" clause even exists. Obviously from hearing about it on here that's not how it works. Why can't NPC just say to the women "you need to contact an alumna and get a rec"?

[TaraHopeful]

I read through this forum and it really helped me to understand more about how important recommendations are. I will be attending the University of Arkansas in the fall of 2002, and plan on rushing. I do not know any greek members (besides from GC)or alumna to get recs from so I'm kind of in the same sticky situation that you've talked about on this thread. If anybody would let me know if it is absolutely necessary that I get a recommendation, please write me. If I do need a recommendation, I don't know what I am gonna do! Thanks so much girls!!!
~Tara~

P.S. Great thread by the way!
you can just e-mail me at BarrelSlicer@aol.com ( i don't want to be the main focus on this thread...if that makes any sense)

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by TaraHopeful
I read through this forum and it really helped me to understand more about how important recommendations are. I will be attending the University of Arkansas in the fall of 2002, and plan on rushing. I do not know any greek members (besides from GC)or alumna to get recs from so I'm kind of in the same sticky situation that you've talked about on this thread. If anybody would let me know if it is absolutely necessary that I get a recommendation, please write me. If I do need a recommendation, I don't know what I am gonna do! Thanks so much girls!!!
~Tara~

P.S. Great thread by the way!
you can just e-mail me at BarrelSlicer@aol.com ( i don't want to be the main focus on this thread...if that makes any sense)

Tara, I just sent you a PM.

[AGDLynn]

I was asked what to do if a PNM can't ethically contact an alumna during "pre-rush" (((I hope this is the thread they wanted, ), unfortunately I don't have all the information so I don't want to give out something that isn't true. I'm hoping that a GC'er with more Panhellenic experience can give a more accurate picture.

However, I did copy this from the Atlanta Panhellenic Association's website...
http://atl-panhel.home.mindspring.com/rushrec.htm

If the alumna is not currently active in her Atlanta sorority organization and does not know the correct procedures or addresses, please tell her to call any AAPA officer. All officers and delegates have AAPA directories that list each sorority’s recruitment contact. The recruitment contact is the official liaison for recommendations/letters of reference for her sorority. Any alumna can call her sorority’s recruitment contact for correct procedures and addresses.

I do recommend that the PNM contact the college's Panhellenic Council to ask how recommendations can be handled so that there are no misunderstanding.

I know that realistically not EVERY "letter of reference" (NPC's new term for recommendation) is checked to see if contact was made during the summer. On a lot of campuses, they are probably no big deal, but sometimes, unfortunately, one group may try to use anything to get another group in trouble.

I don't know how the high schools handle things, but perhaps the guidance counselors, or whatever they are called these days, should maintain a list of local sorority members.

I'm going to the Braves game Sat. night with the AGD rep so I'll ask questions and get back to you!

[LexiKD]

Well, since our chapters get recs on all PNMs it is hard/impossible to get a rec on everyone if we did it on personal knowledge. I write recs for my area and it states on the form if you know the woman and if so how long. If it is someone I haven't met I just call references and get info, kind of like a summary of her peers/teachers/coaches....

I don't mind doing them if I don't know them, many times it is just a fact finding tool and there isn't a recomendation either way, that is, I don't say she would be a good or bad member...

If it is a real rec, if someone asks me to write one, I would have to at least meet them.