ABCNews.com Asking for Feedback About Hazing

[Rudey]

Yeah it'd probably be best if you did stay on your own glo's forum.

-Rudey
--We'll all get along better than way probably. Cool. High-five!

Originally posted by Ideal08
If you re-read my post, you will see why it is necessary to fight off those views; it's called education. Everything is not about just ME. I can't call someone ignorant if I am not willing to educate that person. But you know what? Instead of fighting off those views, I'd rather perpetuate some stereotypes of my own. Maybe you'd like that better? Because apparently standing up for myself, my organization, and organizations like mine makes you uncomforatable. At least that is MY perception.

So, forcing someone to drink and then leaving them with alcohol poisoning for dead is not violent? And neither is rape? That's "weird...stuff?" But with BGLOs it's violence? That's an interesting concept. And now I'm to believe that White GLOs don't have "violent" hazing? Because I went to a university where they did, males and females. I have a very CLOSE friend who actually won a lawsuit against a White GLO at my university for the very thing that is associated with BGLOs: paddling. And afterwards she was continually threatened whenever she came to campus to visit (because the experience was so bad for her she ended up transferring). That's just weird stuff, though, right?

ETA: You know what? It's topics like these that keep me out of the general forums. No one wants to deal with the ignorance that lurks around here. I think I'll stick to my regular posting patterns from now on.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by Ideal08
If you re-read my post, you will see why it is necessary to fight off those views; it's called education. Everything is not about just ME. I can't call someone ignorant if I am not willing to educate that person. But you know what? Instead of fighting off those views, I'd rather perpetuate some stereotypes of my own. Maybe you'd like that better? Because apparently standing up for myself, my organization, and organizations like mine makes you uncomforatable. At least that is MY perception.

So, forcing someone to drink and then leaving them with alcohol poisoning for dead is not violent? And neither is rape? That's "weird...stuff?" But with BGLOs it's violence? That's an interesting concept. And now I'm to believe that White GLOs don't have "violent" hazing? Because I went to a university where they did, males and females. I have a very CLOSE friend who actually won a lawsuit against a White GLO at my university for the very thing that is associated with BGLOs: paddling. And afterwards she was continually threatened whenever she came to campus to visit (because the experience was so bad for her she ended up transferring). That's just weird stuff, though, right?

ETA: You know what? It's topics like these that keep me out of the general forums. No one wants to deal with the ignorance that lurks around here. I think I'll stick to my regular posting patterns from now on.

Wasn't there a thread (I may have started it actually) about this and the media? basically, it talked about how blacks are viewed as being more violent, but whites are viewed in more "less abrasive " terms, even though they each had committed the same crime. I'll have to search for the thread.

Ok, back to topic.......

Hoosier (and anyone else that needs some clarification) if you check out www.stophazing.org or www.hazing.hanknuwer.com , you will find your theory of BGLOs being mutually exclusive to violence (and therefore the cause of all greeks getting a bad rap for hazing... ) completely blown out the window.

[hoosier]

I think ABC should know:

1 - the Alfred U. study of hazing in athletics is biased and wrong

2 - altho black GLOs and white GLOs both have Greek Letters on their T-shirts and houses, they aren't very similar. Both have their good points.

3 - the single worst case of hazing last year - two ladies drowned - involved a black GLO.

4 - Rush Limbaugh is right, and is not a druggy. He stepped on the third rail, mentioning the player's race.

According to a reliable internet source, no ostrich has ever been observed with his or her head burried in the sand.

[moe.ron]

1 - the Alfred U. study of hazing in athletics is biased and wrong

Can't comment on that cause I haven't read it yet.

2 - altho black GLOs and white GLOs both have Greek Letters on their T-shirts and houses, they aren't very similar. Both have their good points.

I agree

3 - the single worst case of hazing last year - two ladies drowned - involved a black GLO.

That chapter is unrecognized and such that, should not reflect the whole organizations. However, I would say the death of Walter Dean Jennings is as horrible as the two ladies death.

4 - Rush Limbaugh is right, and is not a druggy. He stepped on the third rail, mentioning the player's race.

Not going to comment on this because we are discussing Greek issues here.

[33girl]

Originally posted by hoosier
PS: I have been to almost every campus in FL.

Did you walk unannounced and uninvited into houses there, too?

[DeltaSigStan]

Originally posted by 33girl
Did you walk unannounced and uninvited into houses there, too?

Ha. Just so you know, a couple houses here had raging parties, so give them until tonight before you come in and start the ignorant judging of those chapters, ok?

We were silent last night, so we're relatively clean, but of course, that wouldn't be enough to change your ASSumption, would it?

[The1calledTKE]

Originally posted by madmax
Is that any worse than the two San Diego TKE pledges that were killed while pledging an active chapter even though the chapter was suspended by the university in 2000 for hazing?



http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...914&highlight= +and+sdsu#post155914

They were killed driving back from an activity not during an actvitiy. It was just the 2 pledges in there own car. If driving your own car is hazing we are all in trouble. Thats why TKE is still at SDSU because driving your own car is not illegal. Granted they are not recoginzed by the campus but are by TKE. And I here they are doing quite well number wise.

[DeltaSigStan]

No, they were expelled from campus because one of their pledges, a professor's son, was left at the campus quad after basically drinking a fifth of alcohol. That happened my freshmen semester and I even talked to the guy it happened to.

Yeah they're doing well with numbers, but you can't judge a chapter merely on that. I'm not going to say anything about the TKEs here aside from what I've just said, but, they haven't exactly done anything to show that they deserve recognition from ANYONE.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

Originally posted by zchi2
When did they haze? Maybe our definition isn't the same...

I'm sorry, but are you serious? Not only the MTV sorority life show, but I personally know of people in 'multicultural' sororities who have been hazed i.e. made to drink until they threw up and forced to stay up all night.

I guess everyone's definition is really different...which may be the problem with this entire thread. I think the first step would be to get someone to give a universal definition of hazing. In my experience hazing is doing anything that active or older members of the organization do not participate in, or things that make the indivual uncomfortable with. Hazing includes "less serious" activities such as interviews, tests, scavenger hunts, trust walks.........honestly i think some of it is stupid, and can make pledging kind of boring without....but i also know the value in anti-hazing policies because not every new member would have the courage to say no to activities they didn't want to do.

Anyway getting on with it, I'm sorry but I assume all org's haze at least a little...it's just hard to avoid. I mean I know that even NPC groups who can get in trouble pretty easily still haze...honestly people it's retarded for everyone to be "ohhhh MY org or MY group of org's (NPC, NIC, NPHC) doesn't haze but the others do".

I guess it's just my two cents.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
I'm sorry, but are you serious? Not only the MTV sorority life show, but I personally know of people in 'multicultural' sororities who have been hazed i.e. made to drink until they threw up and forced to stay up all night.

I guess everyone's definition is really different...which may be the problem with this entire thread. I think the first step would be to get someone to give a universal definition of hazing. In my experience hazing is doing anything that active or older members of the organization do not participate in, or things that make the indivual uncomfortable with. Hazing includes "less serious" activities such as interviews, tests, scavenger hunts, trust walks.........honestly i think some of it is stupid, and can make pledging kind of boring without....but i also know the value in anti-hazing policies because not every new member would have the courage to say no to activities they didn't want to do.

Anyway getting on with it, I'm sorry but I assume all org's haze at least a little...it's just hard to avoid. I mean I know that even NPC groups who can get in trouble pretty easily still haze...honestly people it's retarded for everyone to be "ohhhh MY org or MY group of org's (NPC, NIC, NPHC) doesn't haze but the others do".

I guess it's just my two cents.

WOW interviews ands tests are considered hazing by some? Regarding tests, how would you (not you, but in generally speaking) know if a pledge has learned all the necessary info about their organization?

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles


Anyway getting on with it, I'm sorry but I assume all org's haze at least a little...it's just hard to avoid. I mean I know that even NPC groups who can get in trouble pretty easily still haze...honestly people it's retarded for everyone to be "ohhhh MY org or MY group of org's (NPC, NIC, NPHC) doesn't haze but the others do".

I guess it's just my two cents.

I know and can honestly say that in my own chapter, as long as I've been in and hazing laws got tighter, we've never hazed. I can't speak for other chapters because I am not a part of them, but I would hope that Phi Mus would have more respect than that.

Honeykiss-- I'm not sure about NPHC, but in NPC it IS considered hazing to make the pledges do interviews and tests. It's even hazing to call them pledges. Do I agree with these? Hell no. I WISH we woulda had to do that so I could've gotten to know my sisters better during that time.

Some hazing laws are RIDICULOUS.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles


I guess everyone's definition is really different...which may be the problem with this entire thread. I think the first step would be to get someone to give a universal definition of hazing. In my experience hazing is doing anything that active or older members of the organization do not participate in, or things that make the indivual uncomfortable with. Hazing includes "less serious" activities such as interviews, tests, scavenger hunts, trust walks.........honestly i think some of it is stupid, and can make pledging kind of boring without....but i also know the value in anti-hazing policies because not every new member would have the courage to say no to activities they didn't want to do.

Anyway getting on with it, I'm sorry but I assume all org's haze at least a little...it's just hard to avoid. I mean I know that even NPC groups who can get in trouble pretty easily still haze...honestly people it's retarded for everyone to be "ohhhh MY org or MY group of org's (NPC, NIC, NPHC) doesn't haze but the others do".

I guess it's just my two cents.

I think this gets us into a HUGE misperception that way, way too many NPC sorority ladies have about hazing. Just because your organization forbids scavenger hunts, interviews, trust walks -- and refers to them as "hazing" -- does NOT mean that they are against state hazing laws. And unless a multicultural organization's HQ forbids them to do these things or they are against federal or state hazing laws, they are NOT hazing. Your organization may think so, and you may not be allowed to do them, but just because a different organization does things differently does not necessarily mean that they are wrong. It is okay, in some cases, for some NIC organizations to make their pledges clean the house. It is okay, in some GLOs, for the actives to conduct interviews or make the pledges go on scavenger hunts.

A lot of NPC organizations have gone overboard in their anti-hazing laws. Do I think that's necessarily a bad thing? No. But I do think that if other organizations choose to run their organizations differently, as long as they're not breaking any laws they are fine.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Just because your organization forbids scavenger hunts, interviews, trust walks -- and refers to them as "hazing" -- does NOT mean that they are against state hazing laws. And unless a multicultural organization's HQ forbids them to do these things or they are against federal or state hazing laws, they are NOT hazing.

Actually that is an excellent point I forgot to make..."hazing" is actually defined by the individual org and/or state law. Where testing is not allowed in NPC, there might not be that same rule for a multicultural GLO...sorry if i made it seem otherwise. Sorry if i sound redudant too...hehe

[breathesgelatin]

Just a note too, that some NPC orgs do allow tests. For example Pi Phi has an official new member test that everyone must pass to be initiated (although they may be phasing this out... I'm not sure). Other tests would be a no-no, though. There is also an interview with alumnae that was required when I pledged. But that was officially sanctioned. A scary interview in the dark or under duress would not be allowed.

Also any event that is participated in by the whole chapter would not be hazing. For example if the whole chapter did a scavenger hunt as a sisterhood activity and everyone was on teams and there was nothing questionable about it (ie, I know a group on campus that does a liquor scavenger hunt where members have to finish whatever liquor they find on their route) it would be fine. We have a ropes course on our campus too--it's hazing to make the pledges do it, but not if the entire chapter goes. Hope that clarifies the position of most NPCs a little.

[zchi2]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think this gets us into a HUGE misperception that way, way too many NPC sorority ladies have about hazing. Just because your organization forbids scavenger hunts, interviews, trust walks -- and refers to them as "hazing" -- does NOT mean that they are against state hazing laws. And unless a multicultural organization's HQ forbids them to do these things or they are against federal or state hazing laws, they are NOT hazing. Your organization may think so, and you may not be allowed to do them, but just because a different organization does things differently does not necessarily mean that they are wrong. It is okay, in some cases, for some NIC organizations to make their pledges clean the house. It is okay, in some GLOs, for the actives to conduct interviews or make the pledges go on scavenger hunts.

THANK YOU for saying that. Just because your organization thinks interviews and such are hazing, why should everyone else believe that?

There are countries where women are not allowed to wear pants. How would people feel if those people came over here and critized all of us for wearing pants?

Like I said before... WHEN DID THE SORORITY ON MTV HAZE? Midnight meetings doesn't count because that might of been the only time they could all meet. When I was going through my educational process, most of the time my class would meet at midnight because everyone was so busy. It's hard to set up a convenient time for EVERYONE to meet sometimes.

Also, I personally never heard of anyone getting a brand when they were pledging. It happens after they cross.