recruitment numbers and reputations

[shadokat]

OK all, here's a question. On a campus where hazing is rampant, recruitment numbers have literally gone to hell. Where at one time (6 years ago), the # of women going through recruitment was 150+, now only 50 women go through. The reputation is that you will be hazed if you decide to pledge, thus discouraging women to go through recruitment. There is one group on campus that is looked down upon because they don't haze. These folks have had trouble with formal recruitment because the people going through recruitment are only those who know they will be hazed, so they don't care if it happens. The non-hazing thing isn't a draw for them.

Now, in an effort to recruit women, a national goes in and does some recruiting, pushing the non-hazing aspect of the chapter, and gets 25 new women in 6 weeks to join the chapter. Isn't it evident to administrators that obviously the greek system isn't really meeting the needs of students as it is, and needs to reform? And then what do you do on this campus when the other organizations are crying foul because your group has 25 new women through COB, while they have 5 through formal recruitment? No NPC violations have taken place, to be clear.

I just need some opinion on this. PM me if you'd like

[LexiKD]

I not sure if I understand 100%. Are you saying that the non hazing group is having number issues and COB to the same total and the hazing groups don't like it?

If so, the hazing groups will eventually be in the same boat. Survival of the fittest I say. Soon, more educated PNMs will set them straight and the hazing groups will be COBing not the other way around.

Old habits die hard and if the school cannot see the issues, then they will when that school lands in the papers and possible students/parents are turned off.

I guess it boils down to how invovled is the school with the system? Many schools don't want to touch Greeks in fear of....well, I am not sure what, but it seems as if tons of school are turning a blind eye...and wait too long.

I couldn't imagine hazing being an advantage to membership?

[PenguinTrax]

As long as those 25 new members didn't put the chapter over campus total, I say more power to them and to heck with the whiners in the other chapters.

You didn't say whether or not the other chapters on campus are nationals, locals or regionals. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that they are locals or regionals - because I can't imagine any NPC group allowing this kind of dismal recruitment result to continue for any period of time. I could be wrong, but I hope not.

Feel free to PM me about this, but my thoughts are that the admininstration needs to take a long hard look at the other groups on campus and institute some major reforms. It sounds like the hazing is so ingrained, I don't know if anything short of complete chapter recolonization and constant supervision for a couple of years will make a difference.

The national group (I assume it's a chapter of DPhiE?) just needs to stay very visible on campus and keep a good attitude. The more women that see happy, non-hazed sisters, the better it will be for everyone, including that chapter's reputation.

[carnation]

Amen to Pnguintrax' response! As you know, we are dealing with the same problem here at the college where I teach. I'm sure that if a national came in and recruited and pushed its no-hazing stance, the locals would evaporate. I can not imagine any student actually wanting to be hazed.

If the national is at total and the locals keep whining with no evidence of improvement, suggest to them that since this one national is thriving beautifully and is at total, it's time to bring in another one!

[damasa]

Originally posted by carnation
Amen to Pnguintrax' response! As you know, we are dealing with the same problem here at the college where I teach. I'm sure that if a national came in and recruited and pushed its no-hazing stance, the locals would evaporate. I can not imagine any student actually wanting to be hazed.

If the national is at total and the locals keep whining with no evidence of improvement, suggest to them that since this one national is thriving beautifully and is at total, it's time to bring in another one!

OH yea, that would be the great thing to do, move in the nationals and "evaporate the locals." Local, regional, national or international all means the same to me, they are all greek organizations. Wouldn't it be better to try to help reform the locals and introduce a no-hazing stance instead of them being forced off campus because of incoming national orgs? That would just be one greek org pushing out another. AND we all know that just because the group is a national and they have this ever so uplifting "no-hazing" policy does not mean that they are always going to abide by anti-hazing policies We all read the news and we all read the risk management board, nationals are just as prone to hazing as a local or regional. The proof is in the charters being lost or revoked, the lawsuits coming out due to pledges being hurt and/or killed in the pledging process, the chapters being forced to close and on and on and on.


Think about that, because nothing in this world is concrete....Nothing is static...things can fall apart.

[PenguinTrax]

Damasa,
The administration on Carnation's campus is in complete denial over the situation. The locals are dying - noone wants to go thru recruitment because of the hazing. Last year they tried to 'force' rushees into the smallest group just to revitalize it (can you say 'to heck with mutual preference?') and all the girls dropped out immediately. The local groups (from what Carnation has said) have no alumnae support or advisors and pretty much run themselves and ignore the administration's weak attempts to get the hazing to stop.

Carnation's campus sitation is defintely not a situation of 'all locals are bad' and 'lets do away with all locals', but rather a realization that once things have degraded this far, it takes radical acts to resolve the problems. If that means getting rid of the locals and bringing in nationals, so be it. I'd rather lose a bad local (or national for that matter) than allow a group to continue hazing and perpetuating negative stereotypes. It's issues like the one Carnation and Shadowkat have described that bring down ALL GLOs.

[carnation]

Again, amen to Pnguintrax! The situation here is unbelievable--the hazing is not laughable, let's-make-a-memory fun. Most is illegal and/or dangerous. All it's going to take is the media getting hold of one incident or someone getting hurt and this college will be in deep doodoo. The administration is hoping that nothing will happen and keeps putting off bringing in nationals but they're going to have to. Yesterday, one of the locals just elected their group of "hazers" for next year.

If these locals were a positive force, I'd say more power to 'em but they continue to hurt and embarrass.

[shadokat]

The campus is comprised of 5 national sororities and 4 local sororities. There used to be 5 local sororities, but one was thrown off of campus indefinitely due to many alcohol incidents.

Whether these chapters are national or local, the question remains that the campus as a whole needs to change, and evidently, the Greek Advisor is not wanting to work towards this process. It's truly a shame, but we will continue to work with this group. They had 16 women at the beginning of the semester, and now have nearly 40. I would say that we are finally selling what the women on campus want in greek life. It's just a shame that everyone has to question it.

[damasa]

Originally posted by carnation
Again, amen to Pnguintrax! The situation here is unbelievable--the hazing is not laughable, let's-make-a-memory fun. Most is illegal and/or dangerous. All it's going to take is the media getting hold of one incident or someone getting hurt and this college will be in deep doodoo. The administration is hoping that nothing will happen and keeps putting off bringing in nationals but they're going to have to. Yesterday, one of the locals just elected their group of "hazers" for next year.

If these locals were a positive force, I'd say more power to 'em but they continue to hurt and embarrass.

So, basically you are saying that if the nationals are brought in and the locals are either kicked out or revamped that it will be a totally different scene? You can basically eliminate hazing as can the administration? I would LOVE to see that kind of guarantee on any campus, any campus. Who is to say that if the nationals came on, the campus would improve? There is a chance that it could stay the same or possibly get worse (I know, not very likely, but there is no guarantee on any of it).

Furthermore, if someone like yourself knows so much about the scene and the locals electing groups of "hazers" for the upcoming semesters, why don't more people? People that are in power enough to take legal action if necessary. I kind of take it as the entire campus knows, or at least that's what I gather. I would just think there would be more of a want to do something about it.

I then ask you carnation, have you done anything personally for the situation? Have you contacted administration and officials to help qwell the ongoing hazing and illegal activity of the locals? Have you taken a stance and informed local law enforcement of the the illegal ongoings? I would hope that you did/would/will, because honesly, if you have not, you have done just as much as the administration, which is nothing.

[FuzzieAlum]

It has been my impression that new chapters of any org, national or local, tend not to haze - anti-hazing, esp. at the national level, is so preached and pushed nowadays! So, I do feel comfortable saying that a new chapter of a national organization will not haze - the only national chapters I know that haze are long-established ones (not that all long-established chapter haze, mind you).

I'm just curious as to why this one other non-hazing group is having membership problems. So they don't haze, and that doesn't attract formal rushees. But why can't they be successful informally?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by damasa


So, basically you are saying that if the nationals are brought in and the locals are either kicked out or revamped that it will be a totally different scene? You can basically eliminate hazing as can the administration? I would LOVE to see that kind of guarantee on any campus, any campus. Who is to say that if the nationals came on, the campus would improve? There is a chance that it could stay the same or possibly get worse (I know, not very likely, but there is no guarantee on any of it).

Furthermore, if someone like yourself knows so much about the scene and the locals electing groups of "hazers" for the upcoming semesters, why don't more people? People that are in power enough to take legal action if necessary. I kind of take it as the entire campus knows, or at least that's what I gather. I would just think there would be more of a want to do something about it.

I then ask you carnation, have you done anything personally for the situation? Have you contacted administration and officials to help qwell the ongoing hazing and illegal activity of the locals? Have you taken a stance and informed local law enforcement of the the illegal ongoings? I would hope that you did/would/will, because honesly, if you have not, you have done just as much as the administration, which is nothing.

Damasa,

Please visit this thread if you'd like to see what carnation has been doing about the hazing issues taking place on her campus.

http://130.94.21.174/gcforums/showth...5&pagenumber=1


Hope this helps!

[damasa]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
It has been my impression that new chapters of any org, national or local, tend not to haze - anti-hazing, esp. at the national level, is so preached and pushed nowadays! So, I do feel comfortable saying that a new chapter of a national organization will not haze - the only national chapters I know that haze are long-established ones (not that all long-established chapter haze

That's kind of my point. So the new chapters will come in and not haze because they are being formed, but what about the long run? It could turn into the same situation as the long standing locals that were once on campus
That is something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Like I also said earlier, there is certainly no guarantee on what can/will/does happen.

However, I do respect the idea that the nationals will come on and keep an anti-hazing stance for a good amount of time, or completely. I would just like to see some kind of situation like this that allows the "hazing locals" to revamp themselves when they see the examples set by the "non-hazing nationals."

In my experience on my campus, the nationals have the trouble with hazing and alcohol restrictions, and the locals are more reserved in that manner. It was different at one point on my campus but times have changed and we have lost so many nationals due to hazing in just the time I've been here. I've been here three years, in that time five nationals have gone under. Three for hazing violations, one for alcohol violations, one due to low numbers. Yet, that is specific to my campus, and they are trying to change that, and some of those nationals are going to be recolonizing soon.

[damasa]

Originally posted by dzrose93


Damasa,

Please visit this thread if you'd like to see what carnation has been doing about the hazing issues taking place on her campus.

http://130.94.21.174/gcforums/showth...5&pagenumber=1


Hope this helps!

Note: I've checked it out. Ok, she is trying to do something, but I still feel some kind of anti-local sentiment about the whole situation......

Originally posted by carnation
Now a new local fraternity has formed but I don't see any sign that they'll be any better.

What is the justification for that? That you won't see a sign that they will get any better or that this local may be different? What would be different compared to a national forming on campus? Are there sure signs, guarantees that the national will be better?

[shadokat]

Fuzzie--

The chapter lacked good marketing skills in terms of selling themselves. Unfortunately, in their defense and as someone who has seen recruitment, all of the other sororities tell the PNMs that they don't haze. In the past, that was believed, but word on the street is pretty strong now to not even listen to that.

And unfortunately, they ended up getting lumped into the general stereotype of the entire campus.

Hope that helps.

[shadokat]

Damasa,

You said:

"In my experience on my campus, the nationals have the trouble with hazing and alcohol restrictions, and the locals are more reserved in that manner. "

Honestly, I think that's an exception rather than the norm.