Mutual Selection in Formal Recruitment: Not So Mutual? For PNMs and Parents.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I think your perception is skewed since I highly doubt you've seen every PNMs invite list. This stuff functions like a bell curve. The chapters and PNMs both fall on that curve in relation to recruiting power. The chapters rarely get every PNM they want for every party, either. It's recruitment. You pick up and move on with what you have.

YES. The bell curve.

The issue? The average PNM perceives that she is in that top percentile end of the curve, when she's really very much in the bell.

If could tell any PNM any one thing (without them being offended) it would be that you are far less desirable than you think are. Sad but true.

This is not to say that no one is going to want you. But again, expectations v. reality.

[kaeb]

true, but among most of my friends to whom I've spoken in other houses, it seems like they would get maybe 5/6 houses for house tours, 3/4 for slideshow, and two/two for pref—and usually at least one of their ranked houses (i.e. the ones they would want to drop if they were invited back to all their top choice, unranked houses) for house tours, and possibly for slideshow and/or pref. Obviously there's variation from PNM to PNM, no one has the same experience, and I've only talked to some of my friends, but that's been my impression for the most part.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by kaeb

true, but among most of my friends to whom I've spoken in other houses, it seems like they would get maybe 5/6 houses for house tours, 3/4 for slideshow, and two/two for pref—and usually at least one of their ranked houses (i.e. the ones they would want to drop if they were invited back to all their top choice, unranked houses) for house tours, and possibly for slideshow and/or pref. Obviously there's variation from PNM to PNM, no one has the same experience, and I've only talked to some of my friends, but that's been my impression for the most part.

That's anecdotal. Realize that SOMEONE is getting into the "good" chapters.

[kaeb]

no, this is even among my friends in the "top" houses. I can think of only two or three girls tops out of everyone I know who rushed who got a full schedule of the houses they wanted every day.

I'm not speaking out of bitterness at my own experience with FR. I now realize I was at the bottom of the bell curve (though I, self-inflating as PNMs are wont to do, would have put myself in the middle, but the results indicate otherwise), and I'm very happy with where I am now—just ask literally any of my sisters. I'm just stating my observations of our formal recruitment. As an outsider (for now).

I agree with KSUViolet, every girl whose self-confidence is strong enough to get her into and through formal recruitment at USC is going to have a pretty high opinion of herself, and think she has more power than she actually does in the selection process (except for in the case of the few "hot ticket" PNMs).

To illustrate the general point I'm trying to make, here's an example.
For convo days, PNM visits houses Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, and Iota. A-D are "top" houses, and interchangeable, depending on the PNM's personality and the girls she talks to at the house. Epsilon, Zeta, and Eta are "middle" houses (again, interchangeable, like with A-D), and Theta and Iota are also more or less interchangeable with each other. She loves Alpha-Zeta, and says those are the houses she wants to go back to for house tours, and she'd prefer to drop Eta, Theta, and Iota. The next day, she receives her schedule: Beta, Delta, Epsilon, Theta, and Iota. Five out a possible six. She's been dropped by four houses, three of which she wanted to keep (so she's been dropped by half the houses she wanted to go back to). Again, she tries to drop Theta and Iota. She gets asked back to Delta, Epsilon, and Iota (three out of a possible four), eventually pledging Delta or Epsilon, after getting invited to pref with could be any two of the above three.

That seems like a pretty normal recruitment at SC to me (nothing like my own, fwiw, but like what my friends experienced), and one that is in the houses' favor over the PNMs'. But maybe I'll reevaluate after I participate in formal on the sister side.

I'm sure everyone else will disagree with me and prove me wrong because I don't know as much as they do, but these are just my observations, with my opinion tacked on.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by kaeb

no, this is even among my friends in the "top" houses. I can think of only two or three girls tops out of everyone I know who rushed who got a full schedule of the houses they wanted every day.

I'm not speaking out of bitterness at my own experience with FR. I now realize I was at the bottom of the bell curve (though I, self-inflating as PNMs are wont to do, would have put myself in the middle, but the results indicate otherwise), and I'm very happy with where I am now—just ask literally any of my sisters. I'm just stating my observations of our formal recruitment. As an outsider (for now).

I agree with KSUViolet, every girl whose self-confidence is strong enough to get her into and through formal recruitment at USC is going to have a pretty high opinion of herself, and think she has more power than she actually does in the selection process (except for in the case of the few "hot ticket" PNMs).

To illustrate the general point I'm trying to make, here's an example.
For convo days, PNM visits houses Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, and Iota. A-D are "top" houses, and interchangeable, depending on the PNM's personality and the girls she talks to at the house. Epsilon, Zeta, and Eta are "middle" houses (again, interchangeable, like with A-D), and Theta and Iota are also more or less interchangeable with each other. She loves Alpha-Zeta, and says those are the houses she wants to go back to for house tours, and she'd prefer to drop Eta, Theta, and Iota. The next day, she receives her schedule: Beta, Delta, Epsilon, Theta, and Iota. Five out a possible six. She's been dropped by four houses, three of which she wanted to keep (so she's been dropped by half the houses she wanted to go back to). Again, she tries to drop Theta and Iota. She gets asked back to Delta, Epsilon, and Iota (three out of a possible four), eventually pledging Delta or Epsilon, after getting invited to pref with could be any two of the above three.

That seems like a pretty normal recruitment at SC to me (nothing like my own, fwiw, but like what my friends experienced), and one that is in the houses' favor over the PNMs'. But maybe I'll reevaluate after I participate in formal on the sister side.

I'm sure everyone else will disagree with me and prove me wrong because I don't know as much as they do, but these are just my observations, with my opinion tacked on.

That is the middle to bottom of the curve example. You're only seeing a part of the picture. Some girls will obviously have better returns, some will have worse. You are getting a cross section that is skewed to the right, but as much as you argue, it is skewed. No matter what you may think, each chapter cuts X number as determined by release methods. USC is no different than any other school. They don't release more than other schools, and it's not a different algorithm. It may seem severe due to the large numbers going through recruitment, but it's no different than the numbers at any other school.

[HQWest]

I couldn't remember the quote from the sorting hat

[phimusam]

This is all great preparation for entering the job market. Even those I know who kept full or nearly full cards through rush didn't get brought back to exact choices. And I know of at least one who found that her first runner-up was where she belonged and she knew it when she went back to that round. The women already in the sorority are probably better judges of fit - they have more information to make the decision. And, from sitting around in meetings where decisions were made, it's almost always the case of the sorority wanting someone more (or not having enough room for everyone they want) than not wanting a particular PNM.

[YesNoMaybe]

It's been said here before but I hear it EVERY recruitment where a woman says "I'm so pissed ABC invited me back because I cut them. And if they hadn't invited me back, I would have had a spot open to go to my favorite chapter XYZ but since ABC wanted me more I got them".

No.

If you are going to a chapter you didn't like (ranked lowest), the ones you ranked higher didn't want you as much as the other women they invited back. None of the other chapter prevented you from getting in.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by YesNoMaybe

It's been said here before but I hear it EVERY recruitment where a woman says "I'm so pissed ABC invited me back because I cut them. And if they hadn't invited me back, I would have had a spot open to go to my favorite chapter XYZ but since ABC wanted me more I got them".

No.

If you are going to a chapter you didn't like (ranked lowest), the ones you ranked higher didn't want you as much as the other women they invited back. None of the other chapter prevented you from getting in.

^^^ Very true!

[sunrain]

This is such a great post! I really wish I had known about this. At my school, chapters have a majority of the power and it would have been great to hear about this!

[LSuz19]

Not to mention girls are really unrealistic during recruitment too. I wish every girl could have the open minded attitude after round one....it is only round one (you can't possibly have a favorite yet), and girls should just be thinking I don't care who invites me back...I just want invites back and then I can start making decisions!!

[Gingerdeltaz]

bump

[wareagle93]

Bump

[carnation]

PNMs, please read this thread and take it to heart. A lot of those recruitment brochures and webpages make it seem like you blithely go through recruitment, choosing who you want for each set of parties. It rarely ends up like that!

[AGDCanada11]

bump - it's that time of year!