No place for average PNMs?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

While its possible not all NPCs have that policy, but I would hope the Membership/Recruitment advisor for the ones that do are aware and make the chapter aware of that requirement. They should also be aware what they need to do to ensure that requirement is fulfilled.

I wonder what kind of monitoring the (inter)national organizations do if they require recs since many schools just don't do them (unless of course, chapters are doing like violetpretty says and writing a quick sentence to satisfy the requirement.)

[oncegreek]

Waaay back in the day, at my west coast school which was purported to have a "laid-back" recruitment (it was anything but that!) many girls dropped out because they were not invited back to their first choices. The well-intentioned response of my alma mater was to add more chapters, one after another. As in, one in 1981, another in 1982, one more in 1983.....Two of those three chapters are gone, and two more closed as well. The Panhellenic website still says, in capital letters, that recs are not needed. I think that at many schools, girls want to join those chapters perceived as "top," or nor join at all. Unfortunately, at too many schools, as another poster stated, it is the "look" that determines who is invited back.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by jamalter

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

Originally Posted by oncegreek

Waaay back in the day, at my west coast school which was purported to have a "laid-back" recruitment (it was anything but that!) many girls dropped out because they were not invited back to their first choices. The well-intentioned response of my alma mater was to add more chapters, one after another. As in, one in 1981, another in 1982, one more in 1983.....Two of those three chapters are gone, and two more closed as well. The Panhellenic website still says, in capital letters, that recs are not needed. I think that at many schools, girls want to join those chapters perceived as "top," or nor join at all. Unfortunately, at too many schools, as another poster stated, it is the "look" that determines who is invited back.

With 15 minute first rounds, I have to agree that looks do play a role on who the women want to invite back. It is first impressions and how well can you get to know someone in less then 15 minutes? I personally think our first round needs to get a little longer so that we can get to know our PNM's a little better and they can get to know us a little better.

[Jen]

I think a lot of the releases could also be explained by the needs of the sorority in that particular year.

A smaller group who is trying to rebuild may want to focus on quality rather than quantity, and may be fine with not reaching quota if it means they get the type of woman they want. That type may be women with strong leadership qualities who are willing to step into those roles right away and are self-confident enough to want to be a part of rebuilding a group.

So a group interested in a woman wanting to take a leadership role may pass over a woman who says she's really interested in the social part of a sorority, or one who is quiet or shy, because they don't think she wants to lead (even if she does!).

Years later that same group could be doing exceedingly well, and may want a very broad range of girls - or maybe they want to avoid recruiting a lot of strong leadership types because they already have so many and they need other types of women to balance the group out. Maybe they want to expand their social activities on campus and are looking for really outgoing and social women? Or maybe they need some women with really strong academics that year because they lost some of their more academically inclined sisters to graduation.

So I think a lot of the average girls who get cut just might not fit that needs of a particular group in that recruitment - and each group is going to have different needs, and she may not be strong enough in the areas they are seeking to stand out. It's no fault of the PNM, because they don't know what to emphasize about themselves if they do have the qualities that group is seeking.

They may be really social and outgoing - once you get to know them. But if this isn't evident in the first or second round, a sorority looking for those types of girls might pass her over in favour of a girl who is more obviously social. This woman may have ended up being a stellar member, but with such a short amount of time, the sorority has to go with what they see and know from those short meetings (especially when a larger group has to cut a LOT of PNMs after the first round, because they are required to due to release figures).

gee I hope her attitude does not prevent my daughter from getting into the Country Club of her choice

[RhoGamma09]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

gee I hope her attitude does not prevent my daughter from getting into the Country Club of her choice

This comment just seems weird to me. Ignoring that and moving on...

I wonder if maybe your daughter was coming off as too snobby or something...whether or not she is, all those legacies and scholarships and blah blah blah honestly can be a huge turn off to people. Yeah, I know its counter-intuitive, but still... those are things you want to see on paper, but when you meet the girl, it can be disastrous if they go about it the wrong way. I know you said she didnt talk about her accomplishments, but this still makes me wonder. If she came through and I met her, I would be wary of a girl touting all that, sometimes it comes off as "Well I am better than you and I know I am getting a bid"

Honestly, I dont have daughters. I am still a Collegiate member of a sorority, I'm not there yet lol. But, I will say, it doesnt matter how many legacies you are, or how "put together" you look, or how good you are at pretending to be interested in an org, a major part of recruitment is luck and chemistry.

You have to make a connection with the girls that are in the room at that moment, it really doesnt matter if youre a legacy, it matters if the girls can see your daughter as a new sister. Every four years, I feel like a sorority can be completely different because of the individual members. If you daughter doesnt click, it might just be because she just didnt get a chance to make a connection.

I know when my daughters go through, I will want really badly for her to get into the sorority of her choice (and I will secretly pray it will be mine ) but I will also try to be understanding and ready for the fact that she might not make it in her first try, or at all. If she doesnt click with the sorority women on her campus, then it just wont be the right thing for her, and it may be hard for me, but its about her college experience.

I am sorry about that kind of heartbreak, its hard to get over, but encourage her to try COB, I am sure if she gets a different method of meeting women, it will be easier. We all (do/and will) build our daughters up, mothers know their daughters better than anyone, but in the end, we just dont know how they really acted that day under all that pressure....sometimes its better for women to do COB because its a different environment.

Best of luck. And remember, its not about "playing a game", its about making friends, life long friends, and they may or may not be in a sorority for your daughter. Letters mean absolutely nothing if you don't sincerely love to be with your sisters.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

gee I hope her attitude does not prevent my daughter from getting into the Country Club of her choice

I call troll at this point.

Listen, if you are a real person, I get that you're disappointed. Coming on a website and bitching about it, however, is not the answer. In fact, there's absolutely nothing you can do. Welcome to parenting college students.

IF she indeed was cut from all of the chapters, and is a legacy to so many orgs, I'm assuming right now that she knowingly sabotaged herself.

[SWTXBelle]

I have two daughters - does my opinion get to count?

I agree that there is something missing - getting cut from ALL the houses (getting cut; not deciding that some houses simply weren't "worthy" of her attention) is rare.

Unless you were in the room at recruitment, you have only your daughter's word as to how she acted. She knows her perceptions - but not those of the chapters. Yes, she should COB. It may be that she is simply one of those girls who does not do well during formal recruitment.

[DubaiSis]

I hope her daughter can work it out. I think the Greek systems are suffering a bit in the Big 10, so it would be a shame to lose a quality candidate because she didn't fully understand the process or her "tone." But I still think I'd press the daughter to admit she wasn't actually cut from every single chapter and there ARE chapters who might be willing to accept her. Even small houses on these campuses have a lot to offer, and for the umpteenth time, 1 new member class changes the membership by approximately 25%. Join that small house and get your friends to join too. You can be a top tier house within 4 years.

[kddani]

I will find out in 12 days whether I'm going to have a daughter or a son... not sure if I'm "qualified" to make a statement or not.

You're not with your daughter 24-7. You weren't there at recruitment. Kids can act pretty damn different when not in front of their parents. Maybe she was a total biatch. Maybe she was making out with some other girl's boyfriend on top of the bar at XYZ fraternity the day before recruitment started. Or maybe even making out with another girl on top of the bar (yep, seen that one happen, too. What mom would believe her daughter would do that? Very few. But it happens). We don't know. But there could be a very good chance your daughter did something to make herself look bad during or right before recruitment. Or maybe she just didn't stand out at all (probably the more likely choice, but you never kow).

[Benzgirl]

I'm not a mom, so I'm just asking this question. Moms, Do you ever prepare DD for disappointment?

"DD, even though you are an Elite Model, have a 10.0 on a 4.0 scale and are as sweet as can be, there might be chpaters at University of Wherever that may cut you. I still want you to try your best, and its not always that they don't want you, but the bottom line is that they might want someone more. We don't know if all of the girls that XYZ took were legacies too and were next door neighbors of sitting members.

It may not work out the way we planned it -- recommendations and interviews with the executive counsels -- but this is preparing you for life. You might also not get into Harvard Law School. You might not get that job you want. And, like Elle Woods, you might get dumped by your BF when you think he is proposing. DD, life is full of disappointments and nobody is exempt."

On the issue of knowing how 18 year old girls behave, here is a general observation. I'm at Pref last night, and the PNMs are lined up outside and I look at a room full of our beautiful members wearing their finest dresses -- CHEWING GUM. Time out! "Get rid of your f-ing gum" And, as girls walked in, my guess was 1/3 were also chewing gum.

I also observed many PNMs leaning back in their chairs when talking to the girl that wanted to be paired with them, completely unaware that they body language showed disinterest, even though they might be interested. Ok, they are 18 years old.

Finally, during the crying ceremony, I looked at one PNM sitting in her chair with her elbows on her knees and chin in her hands, obviously completely bored. Note to self, she is 18.

Bottom line, I agree that you haven't any idea what she is doing when she is out of your sight. In fact, you say that she says she doesn't drink. She says!

[oncegreek]

With regards to the young lady who was cut at the Big 10 school..... certainly, I feel bad for her, unless it was that "one thing" that got her cut. Or maybe it was the pantyhose with the rhinestones....

Wow ladies (and I use that term loosely here) you are HARSH! way to represent the greek community. You were amazingly quick to bash my daughters Morals (no she is not a drunken sleaze making out with fraternity guys or girls for that matter on a bar), insinuate that she is lacking fashion sense (she is an elite model -so no rhinestone pantihose here). I sure hope that none of the posters are a member of my sorority. But thank you anyways, you gave me and my daughter a good laugh and have officially turned our thoughts around about being disappointed that she did not make it past round 3 (she was dropped) before Pref night. It is good to know that girls like my daughter (in your opinion) belong in a lower tier house. What it wrong with thinking that there is not such thing as a lower tier house. You might trying showing compassion to girls who are clearly not in your league...

[Elephant Walk]

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I absolutely hate irrational old people. It's less excusable than irrational young'ns.

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

Wow ladies (and I use that term loosely here) you are HARSH! way to represent the greek community. You were amazingly quick to bash my daughters Morals (no she is not a drunken sleaze making out with fraternity guys or girls for that matter on a bar),

I don't believe anyone said that she had bad morals. However, you don't know what your daughter has done, really. If you're with her every day, all day...then maybe you can say that. But that would mean she is probably special. Shoot, my parents don't know about all the blow I use to do and thought I hated drugs. You never quite know about your own flesh and blood.

insinuate that she is lacking fashion sense (she is an elite model -so no rhinestone pantihose here).

You don't know that she had "fashion sense" for that University. If I saw a girl at the UofA walking around in some of the crap I've seen girls out west wear, I would imagine they would be cut the first day.

I sure hope that none of the posters are a member of my sorority. But thank you anyways, you gave me and my daughter a good laugh and have officially turned our thoughts around about being disappointed that she did not make it past round 3 (she was dropped) before Pref night. It is good to know that girls like my daughter (in your opinion) belong in a lower tier house. What it wrong with thinking that there is not such thing as a lower tier house. You might trying showing compassion to girls who are clearly not in your league...

I don't know that anyone said that she belonged in a low tier sorority. Discussing tiers is not something GC looks very highly upon, so I sort of doubt it...though I haven't re-read the conversation.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

You might trying showing compassion to girls who are clearly not in your league...

If you daughter exhibited this type of attitude during recruitment, that very well could have been her downfall.