Discrepancies in the way we view rush

[sugar and spice]

Something I've found interesting while reading through this forum on GC is the hypocrisy inherent in this forum. We are constantly assuring people that sorority rush is not a shallow process, that what you wear or how attractive you are doesn't matter as long as you make an effort to put yourself together, that every girl should give each sorority an equal chance and not listen to rumors, that you don't have to have money or connections to get into a sorority.

Yet there is a sick sense of pride in the amount of cut-throat-ness of rush at certain Southern schools (okay, let's not discriminate -- certain Northern schools too, although not to the same extent). Plenty of y'all seem to take pride in those big SEC schools with the giant, competitive Greek systems -- without acknowledging that the shallowness of the system is what makes rush so competitive. Whenever there is a post about UGA, Ole Miss or Bama, there are flurries of posts about how your Lilys and your Louies do matter, how hot you are does matter, who you knew in high school and who wrote your recs does matter, blah blah blah.

Yet nobody denounces these systems for that, even though we whine constantly about how "Everybody thinks sorority rush is shallow and we're shallow, and we're really not! Money and looks and clothes don't matter!" Like I said, there are many, many GCers who not only don't attack the way rush is conducted in these systems -- they venerate it! It's no wonder that so many people don't believe us when we say sorority rush is not a shallow process. Certainly, at many schools and within many chapters, it's not -- or at least not to the same extent. But to worship big Southern rushes for how "competitive" while ignoring the fact that it is partly (if not primarily) the shallow criteria the PNMs are judged on that makes things so competitive . . . makes us look like shallow hypocrites.

Can we stop talking out of both sides of our mouth and just pick one view or the other?



PS: Play nice in this thread, please.

[AchtungBaby80]

Hell, yes, rush is shallow! Just like the rest of life, looks do matter, first impressions do matter (a lot of it is first impressions), and a whole lot of other superficial stuff matters more than it probably should just because rush is so short. You have to admit, it's a lot of fun, though.

I'm sure there's a better way to do it...but we just don't.

[carnation]

The reason that recruitment can be shallow is that life as a whole is that way...I've read so many studies that affirm that given 2 equal candidates for the job, the more attractive one (or at least the one who's best put together) will get the job. Studies even show that very young babies will exhibit preferences for photos of attractive adults as opposed to others.

How many times have you seen a Miss America (remember, they're a SCHOLARSHIP pageant, don't call them a beauty pageant ) who's morbidly obese with terminal acne?The truth is that looks play a huge role in life, as unfair as it is.

It's generalizing to say that all big Southern rushes are shallow. That's not why they're competitive. Alums and actives spend months behind the scenes looking up grades, activities, talking to people who have written recs. The sororities want people who'll represent them well in all aspects, not just in *pageants*. This is why a PNM should have a good resume of worthwhile activities--because sororities want workers, not ghost members or letter pimps.

Recruitment in the South is competitive because it's a seller's market. There are a lot of women who want to be Greek, thus we have pledge classes of 50-80 at several universities. I have never heard a Southerner say she was proud to be Greek because recruitment is competitive here. We're proud of our systems because they're strong.

I doubt that people will play nice in this thread. You've pretty much denounced Southern recruitment as being shallow. What do you expect everybody to do, sit back and take it? Until you've been down here and experienced the system, please don't judge what you don't know. I certainly don't flame non-Southern recruitments. Every system uses the best style of recruitment for itself and the system that the Southern universities uses works best for us and our thousands of PNMs.

[paulaKKG]

"Shallowness" (Picking on looks or family background) is soooo not exclusively a southern SEC school/competitive rush" problem.

I bet EVERY system has at least one chapter (if not all!) who have biases towards better looking PNMs. Some people are just a little more honest about it than others.

I went to a nothern school with a fairly small greek system (our first day of rush was always spent convincing people to go greek, much less to join our chapter!) There was a big issue one year when an email intended for chapter members only accidentally was sent to the wrong address (not our chapter, one of the other ones). In the email, the assistant rush chair had gone through freshman photos and picked the "10 best looking freshman women" and identified them to all members so the house could target them during rush. The email was posted to a school-wide bulletin board, and immediately all the other sorority houses feigned being appalled - WE would never do such a thing, such-and-such house is just SOOOO shallow. Yeah right.

If anything, I'd say the SEC schools are LESS shallow because of how much more time they spend researching the activities and background of their members.

I feel like most northern schools go "ohmigod, i need 20 warm bodies to make numbers!"

just my not-the-least-bit-humble opinion..

[33girl]

Originally posted by paulaKKG
If anything, I'd say the SEC schools are LESS shallow because of how much more time they spend researching the activities and background of their members.

I feel like most northern schools go "ohmigod, i need 20 warm bodies to make numbers!"

I sincerely hope you're joking. If we had to lump "most" northern schools together with a quote I think it would be more along the lines of "I wish those southern belles at HQ from the 300 person chapters would STFU about getting quota/total so we didn't have to take warm bodies we don't give a rat's ass about."

Southern chapters may research and know that Zsa Zsa was the 2004 sweet potato queen and all her female relatives since 1900 have been KKGs and she has a 4.0...but that says NOTHING about the kind of person she is inside. For all they know, she'll come through rush and be the dirrrrtiest girl on earth whose parents have been covering for her for 18 years.

anyway...

Heather, I understand what you're talking about and I used to feel the same way. I have come to the conclusion that Different Things Are Just Different. I probably would be aghast at the way some of our chapters go about rushing and choosing women...but they would feel the same way about mine.

Yeah, it's fun to read about the matching outfits and huge parties and budgets. It's fun for me to read about it because I never had to do it. I would last 2.5 seconds in that kind of environment. But again, that's just me.

[TSteven]

I don't feel that *looks* ("put together" what have you) are the primary criteria that Southern chapters use when they evaluate a potential new member. Just happens to be a more noticeable attribute.

My guess is that academics, leadership, integrity, friendship, personality etc. are at the forefront.

Yes, rush is competitive at many Southern schools. This is because there are so many excellent women going through rush with with a high GPA, extra curricular activities out the wazoo, community service that would make Mother Teresa blush, stellar recommendations, and legacies to boot. All the while there is a limited number of bids available. As such, *looks* may end up as the "tie breaker". But is not the reason a women is extended a bid. It is the whole "package".

And letting PNMs know "the whole picture" is not talking out of both sides of the mouth. Frankly, it is simply putting forth an accurate assessment of what to expect.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by TSteven
I don't feel that *looks* ("put together" what have you) are the primary criteria that Southern chapters use when they evaluate a potential new member. Just happens to be a more noticeable attribute.

My guess is that academics, leadership, integrity, friendship, personality etc. are at the forefront.

Yes, rush is competitive at many Southern schools. This is because there are so many excellent women going through rush with with a high GPA, extra curricular activities out the wazoo, community service that would make Mother Teresa blush, stellar recommendations, and legacies to boot. All the while there is a limited number of bids available. As such, *looks* may end up as the "tie breaker". But is not the reason a women is extended a bid. It is the whole "package".

And letting PNMs know "the whole picture" is not talking out of both sides of the mouth. Frankly, it is simply putting forth an accurate assessment of what to expect.

I totally agree with this. I'd go out on a limb and say that hot girls with no other redeeming qualities are not the ones getting bids at competitive schools.

And on a side note- not all Southern schools are even close to this. North Carolina is a HUGE Greek state- the majority of NPC orgs have high #s of chapters in our state. But I'd say we don't have ANY schools who have these competitive recruitments. Granted, we aren't SEC- which has a lot to do with it.

We tend to get into North/South generalizations on GC- it helps everyone out if we keep in mind how diverse we can be even within groupings.

[carnation]

Originally posted by TSteven
Yes, rush is competitive at many Southern schools. This is because there are so many excellent women going through rush with with a high GPA, extra curricular activities out the wazoo, community service that would make Mother Teresa blush, stellar recommendations, and legacies to boot. All the while there is a limited number of bids available. As such, *looks* may end up as the "tie breaker". But is not the reason a women is extended a bid. It is the whole "package".

AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!!! AMEN!!!!!

[bekibug]

Also keep in mind that at places like Auburn where we have huge chapters, we can ususally find someone who has at least heard of most PNM's before. I'm from west Alabama, and I get asked constantly if I know Susie Q. from XTown or Susie P from ZTown. Sometimes I do, and when I don't know her, I usually know someone who does. Every sister from the Atlanta area knows or knows someone that knows Atlanta-area PNM's. Same way for sisters from Birmingham, Montgomery, and other places--and it's like that for every chapter on campus. Believe me, there's a lot of behind-the-scenes "research" on girls that goes on before the actual week of recruitment. Girls are "known" before they actually come through.

Every organization has chapters that really are shallow and will ask you blatantly how much your parents make and/or judge you on how many designers you have in your closet. There are certainly a couple here; I'd be lying if I said there weren't. There are also plenty of chapters that look at Jane in a Lily Pulitzer dress and just think "Hey, that dress happens to look really cute on her--she really put herself together well," and don't take into account the designer. Like CarolinaCutie said, plenty of "hot" girls with nothing else to back them up (mediocre grades, not many outside activities, very little community service) get cut all the time.

Other factors aside, looks are about the only way you can remember a girl when you're meeting 1000+ of them. Even though sister Katie may only meet 85-100 PNM's during ice water teas, that's still a lot of girls.

I don't think this is inherent only to Southern chapters, but rather to all campuses with a huge Greek Life interest. It just happens that most campuses with that huge of an interest seem to be down here, so we kind of get stuck with that "shallow" label. It would be fabulous if we could really get to know every girl during recruitment, but can you just imagine how long that would take? Personally, I don't like the idea of 8 rounds of IWT so that each girl goes to 2 parties a day and gets to know the chapter better than in 25 minutes. If less girls were going through recruitment, then it wouldn't be so big a deal.

[JupiterTC]

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie
North Carolina is a HUGE Greek state- the majority of NPC orgs have high #s of chapters in our state. But I'd say we don't have ANY schools who have these competitive recruitments. Granted, we aren't SEC- which has a lot to do with it.

CarolinaCutie what school do/did you go to? Elon's recruitment can be pretty competitive, but it's not extremely cut-throat. I would think that the bigger Greek systems in NC (Duke, Wake, Chapel Hill) would be somewhat competitive, but I could be totally wrong.

My question is this: how did our founders recruit members? What was recruitment like 50, 75, of even 100 years ago? Tri Delta was formed because one of our founders wanted to form a female society that accepted girls as who they are, and not what they were on the outside. Apparently, sororities were taking girls based off looks back in 1888, otherwise our founder wouldn't have mentioned anything about it.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally posted by 33girl
I sincerely hope you're joking. If we had to lump "most" northern schools together with a quote I think it would be more along the lines of "I wish those southern belles at HQ from the 300 person chapters would STFU about getting quota/total so we didn't have to take warm bodies we don't give a rat's ass about."

Yeah, it's fun to read about the matching outfits and huge parties and budgets. It's fun for me to read about it because I never had to do it. I would last 2.5 seconds in that kind of environment. But again, that's just me.

33girl:

Our environments are EXACTLY alike and I AGREE 100% with everything you said. I CRACK UP reading about learning PNM's info over the summer. Heck, our Panhellenic works up to the WEEK before just trying to get PNM's to sign up. There needs to be a "small northern school rush talk" thread for people like us.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by JupiterTC
CarolinaCutie what school do/did you go to? Elon's recruitment can be pretty competitive, but it's not extremely cut-throat. I would think that the bigger Greek systems in NC (Duke, Wake, Chapel Hill) would be somewhat competitive, but I could be totally wrong.

My question is this: how did our founders recruit members? What was recruitment like 50, 75, of even 100 years ago? Tri Delta was formed because one of our founders wanted to form a female society that accepted girls as who they are, and not what they were on the outside. Apparently, sororities were taking girls based off looks back in 1888, otherwise our founder wouldn't have mentioned anything about it.

I go to UNC Greensboro. To my knowledge, Elon is probably one of the most competitive schools in NC since such a high percentage of the student body is Greek. Being Greek is a big deal at your school, whereas it's NOT at a lot of the other schools you named. Big does not always equal competitive- there's a lot of factors that go into all that. For example- Chapel Hill is losing chapters over the years, which means PNMs are the ones in high demand, not sororities.

As for Duke and Wake, it depends on your definition of competitive. I would not group either of these schools on the same playing field, competition-wise, as SEC schools like UGA, Bama, Ole Miss, etc.

[AOIIBrandi]

I think we are forgetting that this "shallowness" goes both ways. PNMs only get to meet a select few sisters when they go through rush - and we have generally hand picked who they will meet before hand. The only things they have to judge us on are: reputation (whether fair or not), sister's looks (because they do look around the room when we are talking), personality of the few sister's they have met, what the house (suite) looks like and/or if we even have a house(suite).

I don't think you are going to find anyone from a competitive greek system who is going to feign embarassment over the perceived shallowness of it. It's something you can't explain. It's almost like trying to explain to someone anti-greek about the merits of the greek system.

[carnation]

Originally posted by AOIIBrandi
I think we are forgetting that this "shallowness" goes both ways. PNMs only get to meet a select few sisters when they go through rush - and we have generally hand picked who they will meet before hand. The only things they have to judge us on are: reputation (whether fair or not), sister's looks (because they do look around the room when we are talking), personality of the few sister's they have met, what the house (suite) looks like and/or if we even have a house(suite).

Absolutely. I started a thread here a few years ago--something like "stupid reasons you cut sororities during rush" and people were saying "because I hated their colors" and "they had a dumb mascot" and "I wanted to be in a sorority with 3 (or 2) letters in its name."

[summer_gphib]

Wow, I went to a relatively small state school, with 6 sororities... Gamma Phi, Tri Delta, A X O, A Z D, Sigma Sigma Sigma, and A D Pi. We were VERY competitive. We wanted the best and brightest, and the most well rounded. You needed the whole package, and I think it goes that way for all Southern schools. (We are considered a southern school! :-) )

I think looks play a big part of it, because thats the outter representation of your chapter, and honestly, in a week (and how many parties?!) you don't get the chance to know PNM THAT well, so things like reputations are really on the line. What GLO doesn't want the BEST in their sorority?? That means on all levels-- beauty, brains, athletics, social skills... etc.