By birth or by choice?

[KSigkid]

Hey everyone,
Just thought I'd drop this down and see what everyone's thoughts were. Do you think homosexuality is something that a person is born with, or do you think it's a choice that a person makes? I know there are lots of sides to this issue, just thought I'd open it up to discussion and see what people thought.

Collin

[amycat412]

I think it could be either....

It comes down to nature v nuture.

Someone not "born" homosexual could become that way due to influences in their childhood that adversely affect their view of the opposite sex in a sexual way...or same sex abuse could be said to be a cause of homosexual behavior later in life as well.

But I absolutely believe it does not have to occur as a result of outside influences.

You are attracted to who you're attracted to, and we can't help who we are attracted to.

I'm just rambling...

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by amycat412
I'm just rambling...

I disagree - in fact, according to present evidence about genetics and gene expression, you might just be on the right track.

It turns out, there is no real "nature v. nurture" argument for many things. It's actually "nature WITH nurture" . . . look at genes for alcoholism. These don't mean that the person with said genes is alcoholic from birth - in fact far from it. It means that there is a genetic predisposition for alcoholism - not all alcoholics have the gene, and not all with the gene will become alcoholic.

Environmental "triggers" are needed to set off genetic predispositions.

Now, sexual preference is a far different issue, most likely - there's no direct link found between sexual preference and any sort of genetic predisposition.

However, I still personally feel that, since attraction is an unexplainable phenomenon that has a definite physical component as well as a mental one, you can most likely draw parallels between it and other such 'inherited' traits - ie people don't choose to be gay, that's who they are, and this is based on many factors, some of which may have varying degrees of environmental influence. I realize this is extremely vague, but with complex topics such as this it pays to follow Occum's Razor when creating theses.

Anyway - When you look at it from this standpoint, not only does it eliminate any sort of possibility of bias against people based on sexual preference, it also removes any sort of 'mystique' or misunderstanding behind homosexuality - it exists, and it is simply a trait people possess just like any other, not something that defines a person.

[justamom]

Have to say so far I'm with both of you all on this pont.

I also think there are situations where there is just plain sexual confusion. A young person, who feels disassociated with their peer group, could reasonably turn to homosexual activity in an attempt to "find him/herself". Later, that same individual may realize that stage of experimentation was not fulfilling and return to heterosexual relationships-or not. I don't know, but it seems this more likely falls under sexual preference like KSig RC is refering to. IF the genetic link is there, in that individual, couldn't this experimentation trigger (awaken)it?
BIAS-
We have an established homosexual community in our area. There hasn't been a public hate crime towards homosexuals since I've lived here. In the High Schools, no anti-gay activities have been reported. It seems most students are very accepting of this difference. These kids have openly shown their preference. On the other hand, there are a few kids, that I am aware of, who are afraid to "come out". They have presented themselves as "straight" all these years, and are afraid they would suffer due to their concealment of this fact.

[SSS1365]

I think that most homosexuals are just born with it. I see what people are saying about how the environment that a person grows up in can influence it, but there are so many homosexuals who were brought up in perfectly "normal" environments, and there are also many heterosexuals who were raised by homosexuals. Now, bisexuality I tend to think is a choice...

[damasa]

Originally posted by SSS1365
I think that most homosexuals are just born with it. I see what people are saying about how the environment that a person grows up in can influence it, but there are so many homosexuals who were brought up in perfectly "normal" environments, and there are also many heterosexuals who were raised by homosexuals. Now, bisexuality I tend to think is a choice...

So, first off, a homosexual influence or environment isn't a "normal" environment? That is kind of what I'm getting from your last few sentences.

Second, how is it that bisexuality can be a choice, but homosexuality can not?
Yes, a person may be homosexual, or they may be straight, BUT there have been many and I mean many instances where a homosexual person has gone straight and where straight people have gone homosexual. I believe it all to be in choice. That and nothing more. As for it not being influenced upon us in our childhood, I don't agree with that argument either. In all, it's all in choice. Most of your friends might drink, you might not, because that's a choice you make. Yet, you may have also grown up in a house full of drinkers, alcoholics, etc. Same with smoking, almost everyone in my family smokes, I do not, because it's a choice that I made, which came an environment full of smokers.

Further, until there is proof or statistical data supporting the argurment that homosexuality is a genetical matter, I will disagree with it, and view it as I view it now, an opinionated theory.

It's the world we live in today, many people take on certain things, and may make choices that aren't shown in their near environment. I don't have to be the one to tell you that, look at society today, almost everything we do is influenced by society in some way or somehow, but just because something is present in your/their physical or "normal" environment, doesn't mean you or that person can still make a choice about something.

Now, no, I am not homophobic or anything like that. I view homosexual people as any other person and respect them just as much. These are merely my thoughts and opinions on the argument of homosexuality being based on birth or choice.

d

[dzrose93]

I think some people are born homosexual, and others choose that lifestyle. I have several gay friends and, although most of them can say that they always felt "different" from other kids growing up, there are a couple who I know for a fact were "straight" for several years and chose to live a homosexual lifestyle later on. These people got into it for experimentation reasons or were just looking for a way to stand out.

So, to answer the question, I think it depends on the person.

[DukeBlue]

I think it depends. Homosexuality is seen in almost all animal species in the wild - so obviously it's not as "unnatural" as some would claim. As for what causes it, who knows - hormonal influences in the womb, genetics, environment, all of the above - we may never know. And frankly, I don't think it matters. Whether it's a "choice" or not should not factor into how we treat people - it's not hurting anyone, and I dare say that it's good - in that love, whether it's between a man and a woman, two women, or two men, is beautiful, and something to be celebrated. The world could use more love, no matter who it's between.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by shultzz
has anyone ever noticed that in most same sex relationships one of the individuals takes the role of the man and the other individual takes the role of the female? why is that?
Ex..Ellen DeGeneris and Anne Heche. Ellen wares a suit and tie and Anne wears a dress. If Anne is really a lesbian and is attracted to women then why does she go out with a woman who dresses and looks like a man?

Anne and Ellen are no longer an item. As a matter of fact, I read that Anne got engaged to her cameraman in May of 2001.

[amycat412]

Anne Heche married a man and is pregnant.

[lifesaver]

I have my opinions on the subject, which for the most part, have been repeated here. I do have a couple of questions I'd like to pose in order to further the debate.

1) If it was a choice, who would choose to be that different? Gays get unholy grief in our society. So whats behind Door #3.

2) I can only speak of the people I know and in my circle of friends, but I dont know anyone who is gregarious enough to do it for attention. Would you do that with you mouth for attention? I wouldnt. Maybe there are those people out there tho.

3) Since I am assuming that none of us are speaking from first hand experience, and none of us are involved in scientific research it is all theoretical to us.

I just find the whole sexual orientation thing so gossipy. Its always about suspecting soemone. We have a brother in the undergrad chapter who many suspect and weither he is or isnt, I feel so bad because some people are always talking about it behind his back (a few brothers, and others on campus). Can you imagine his life? What he has to go through on a daily basis. I dotnt think I could handle that.

One statistic tho: As I learned in my Human Sexuality class. If there is a gay child (15-50 years old) in a family, there is a 60% chance that another same-gender child in the same family will be gay as well. I cite the specific study if need be. I just forgot to bring my Human Sexuality Text to work today. Sorry.

(I didnt read shultzz' post it was removed befor I read it, so I cant comment on it, BUT I am proud of all of us on here that everyone seems to be accepting of diversity. Thats a good thing.)

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by DukeBlue
I think it depends. Homosexuality is seen in almost all animal species in the wild -

Last night Jack from Will and Grace:

"I've seen lesbian ducks before. They had really short feathers on the top of their heads, and really long ones on the back."

[newbie]

I think maybe they were born homosexual. I do know a few gay people (I do live in SAn Francisco!), and some knew they were gay ever since they were little. I also agree with Lifesaver - who would choose to live such a life of grief and discrimination, no matter where you turn? Even thuogh SF is such a liberal and accepting city (and CA in general), homosexuals still get discriminated against here. Most people here are great about these things. But some people are very ignorant, tho.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I guess the point is whether it is nature or nurture, we should treat everyone with respect, dignity, and decency.

[amycat412]

Originally posted by Cream
I guess the point is whether it is nature or nurture, we should treat everyone with respect, dignity, and decency.

Well said!